$109's... I am a post flop genius... but...

[z32fanatic]

OK, but I feel more confident on a T73 flop with 88 than 66. I see what you're saying, and I'm probably too tight in these situations. Would you limp with 22 here? How many BBs would you need to limp in this situation?

[bigt439]

The biggest reason I don't want to limp is because I think in L3 it gets raised in one spot a lot. Plus, with only 30 bb's I'm not getting great odds on a set. I'll have very little bluff equity taking this 3 or 4 way as well.

If I raise maybe it'll get reraised, but probably not, I'm not that concerned, I see very few 3-bets with stacks like this in L3. The problem is I likely will get called in at least one spot and be OOP. If I could raise and then play the hand with position here I think I would. Obviously, it's a marginal spot and I think that being OOP swings it into -EV one for me anyways. There are some other small reasons but this is my biggest problem with this hand.

I posted this because I saw something a while back about what I remember as being a similar situation by strassa that said he'd raise and wouldn't think about folding. That is paraphrasing him pretty hard. I can't find or really remember the post, and hey, maybe it was nothing like this hand, but either way the small pair issue is one I've been wrestling with so hopefully this discussion continues.

[patrick dicaprio]

one thing to consider, probably the key is the table. if the table is one that will usually be raised even after you limp then i think you have to fold here. assuming you limp for 50 and it is raised to 150-200 then i think you have to fold here if it will be raised even a reasonable percentage of the time, which is probably the case. limping here is fine if you are relatively sure you wont be raised.

Pat

I'd limp you have 30bbs if it get's raised behind you can fold without giving up much of your stack and you could win a huge pot with a set. I think folding your losing a change to win a big pot and raising will probably mean you will have to play a big pot out of position with a marginal hand.

[Pokerscott]

3 options for me:

-Limp 60%
-fold 30%
-loooong pause and then min raise 10% [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

swap limp/fold probabilities if table raising out limpers.

Pokerscott

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest reason I don't want to limp is because I think in L3 it gets raised in one spot a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly why I would fold. I don't expect to see many limped pots in a 109.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd limp you have 30bbs if it get's raised behind you can fold without giving up much of your stack and you could win a huge pot with a set. I think folding your losing a change to win a big pot and raising will probably mean you will have to play a big pot out of position with a marginal hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Note that the effective stacks vs most opponents are not 30bbs, you are overestimating the implied odds you have in this situation.

[johnnybeef]

this discussion becomes so much more interesting if hero is in lp or mp.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
this discussion becomes so much more interesting if hero is in lp or mp.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I don't think there's a discussion in LP. I'm raising every time.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, but I feel more confident on a T73 flop with 88 than 66. I see what you're saying, and I'm probably too tight in these situations. Would you limp with 22 here? How many BBs would you need to limp in this situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

It really depends on the table. For example, I'm more likely to limp 6 handed than 8 handed than 10 handed. But usually, like people said, it depends on the aggressiveness factor. FWIW, there are/were lots of 109 tables where you can limp this, although I might be a bit out of touch now.

Also, if it's raised to 150 and the raiser shows the least tendency to suck, playing poker is fun.