Overcall this river?

Koss · #1 11-09-2005, 04:51 PM

I know I f'ed this hand up pretty good. This seemed like a pretty good time to wait for a safe turn card before throwing in a raise. I thought about raising pre-flop, but with 2 limpers in and loose blinds I figured I was going to have to catch a pretty favorable flop to have a chance.

SB and UTG are loose passive. UTG has also made some very stupid bets with weak hands that have no chance of inducing folds.

I figure I should have stuck with my initial plan of raising the turn. There was a chance I was behind but I wasn't ready to give UTG any credit just yet. The SB donk on the river caught me completely off guard. I couldn't imagine him making the bet without a 9. When UTG just called I figured I had him beat, but the SB donk threw me for a loop.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) CP hand converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP folds, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds.

River: (8 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero???

Final Pot: 10 BB

madscratch · #2 11-09-2005, 04:56 PM

I think we've got raise the flop. We've got the best hand at this point and we want to protect it. Let's try to get rid of some overcards and make those on the draw pay to hit it. We're not playing to hit our 2 outer. Why are we just calling?

MrWookie47 · #3 11-09-2005, 05:05 PM

Who's folding to our raise?

Wizard0965 · #4 11-09-2005, 05:09 PM

Short answer is no one is folding to the raise. The only hope in a raise is pushing SB out, but only if he is tight which our read says he isn't. Everyone else is getting odds to draw with one more bet back to them.

madscratch · #5 11-09-2005, 05:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Short answer is no one is folding to the raise. The only hope in a raise is pushing SB out, but only if he is tight which our read says he isn't. Everyone else is getting odds to draw with one more bet back to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

But we didn't know BB would fold to the 1 bet. Getting SB and BB to both fold also leaves no one to act behind us, relative to the flop bettor. And we may bet it check to us on the turn. These all seem like good reasons to raise to me.

Granted, the pot is small, but I just don't see calling the flop to be the right play. I want to raise or fold, but I don't want to fold an overpair, so I'm raising.

Wizard0965 · #6 11-09-2005, 05:23 PM

BB bet out on the flop meaning he likes part of his hand, with two limpers after then us raising he's getting 10:1 on his money right now (assuming SB folds) and I know very few hands not calling with those odds.

MrWookie47 · #7 11-09-2005, 05:26 PM

This is poor thinking. With no reads at 0.50/1, it is highly unlikely that BB is going to bet/fold. People at these stakes just don't do that commonly. Hell, it's uncommon at higher stakes. Go back and read the two overpair hands section of SSH.

madscratch · #8 11-09-2005, 05:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Who's folding to our raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, we've got 2 behind us. I'd like to play this hand against as few opponents as possible.

MrWookie47 · #9 11-09-2005, 05:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who's folding to our raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, we've got 2 behind us. I'd like to play this hand against as few opponents as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I only count one who hasn't put any money in. All the others are def. calling one more. This is a great spot to wait for the turn to raise.

#10 11-09-2005, 05:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is a great spot to wait for the turn to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thinking about this, you're probably right (lacking a preflop raise), although the 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] gives various drawing hands a reason to hang in, and taints our outs (the remaining 8s could complete a straight).

I make it close, but yeah, a turn raise will punish bad draws more than a flop raise will.