WA/WB with 99?

[Fnord]

[ QUOTE ]

I started argueing with myself that cheap info on the flop would be better because we are against a passive player leading into a field.

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A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] will 3-bet you too often and a flopped flush will smooth call too often to "raise for info." A lot of turn cards are really going to suck, so I like waiting for the turn here. On the turn we might dump it (since the pot is small) or just continue to call down as well. A turn raise tends to give us more reliable information about "where we're at" anyway.

[Willluck]

raise PF.
call the flop, raise a safe turn. value bet river.

[scotty34]

I don't think 99 is a hit to win hand. It is definetly worthy of a PF raise.

I think barring any amazing reads, you have to raise the turn here. You can be WAY BEHIND a flush, but you are not WAY AHEAD of much. There is so much he could have that he would be betting with in this scenario. A lone Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]-A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A6, a pocket pair lower than yours, overcards. The only thing he may have beating you really is a flopped flush (or unlikely straight). I would raise the turn as there is a very good chance you are ahead. If 3-bet on the turn I could almost find a fold here.

[Solid_p]

[ QUOTE ]
The raise preflop is pretty standard. Nines are holding up more than enough.

I don't mind the flop, but i'm raising the turn. You are most likely ahead. On the flop the fish could have something like K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] which you are about even money with. I would give up on that small edge to exploit a larger one on the turn.

After raising, I don't take the free showdown against a fish.

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I'm with him!

[Evan]

This hand is like the antithesis of way ahead or way behind. That is all I have to say.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
raise PF.
call the flop, raise a safe turn. value bet river.

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[chief444]

I think you missed a value raise on every street, although I have no real problem with just calling the flop. This one is ugly.

[afk]

I think you should raise preflop. The way it played out (not raising pf) you should call the flop and raise a good turn card.

[brettbrettr]

Raise pre-flop, raise flop.

[Pokey]

All the advice in this thread is fantastic. Thanks for the input, folks.

Fnord, you really just helped to shape my thinking about hot to approach middle pairs. Your reasoning for raising preflop is outstanding, and I think I'm starting to get it. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] It seems like the essential justification for raising here is (a) 99 CAN hold up, even multi-way, (b) it buys position, and (c) it represents strength that you can disguise as a high card if the flop gives you the opportunity. I'm going to start playing my pocket 8s and 9s more aggressively as a result of this advice.

wrto4556, you're like a security blanket to protect against monsters under the bed. When the 8 fell on the turn, I really liked it, but when the fish bet into me I got all vaginal. I've got a real phobia about fish who bet; I've got to start remembering that "aggression factor 0.75" does not mean "never bets." It only means "bets less often than he calls."

A few questions for everybody about how to proceed, structurally:

1. Say that I raise preflop but the flop plays out the same way. Should I smooth-call hoping to raise a turn blank, raise immediately, or fold?
2. If I raise the turn and he fires back a reraise, can I safely fold this one to the aggro fish for one bet?

Thanks again for the input.