Awful, just awful.

[Catt]

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I in all honesty think you all are wrong. I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that either.

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You're not going to offend anyone by disagreeing with them.

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But here is the plain and simple truth.

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You will, however, look a bit silly when you descend from the mountaintop to share the "plain and simple truth" with the unwashed.

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You have 5 players in a raised pot preflop. The pot is large. If the pot was small his flop raise would have been incorrect with the two diamond and cordinated board. But you have to raise with your six outter on the flop because the pot is large.

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The fundamental assertion I am making is that I do not believe Hero has 6 outs. And the pot being large is not reason enough alone to raise a 6-outer. You need to take into account the texture of the board and the players to act behind, as well as the odds you'll be offering them by your raise. I hope you're not arguing that we push hard anytime the pot is large simply because it is large.

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn he had odds to call one bet and if he didn't hit on the river he can fold.

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Whether he has odds or not depends on your count of his outs. The turn is a closer call than the flop, IMHO, given the rest of the action on the flop and the turn.

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You can almost make a case for him to bet on the end though because the queen obviously scared the other player and sacrificing one bet for the chance to win the I believe 12 big bet pot is well worth it.

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Betting on the end would be a very bad play. The Q almost assuredly "scared" SB because it completes the flush, not because it is an overcard, and I'd wager that SB is check-calling anything from Hero in a pot this size unless he was on a draw that completely missed. Betting assures you either donate another BB to Villain or you win a hand you had won without betting anyway.

[KornGeek]

[ QUOTE ]
You can almost make a case for him to bet on the end though because the queen obviously scared the other player and sacrificing one bet for the chance to win the I believe 12 big bet pot is well worth it.

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Considering that the opponent is known to love check raising and has shown strength throughout this hand, I don't think you can safely say "the queen obviously scared the other player". Checking on the river is 100% the right call in this situation.

The rest of the hand is debatable. I would have probably folded on the flop, despite the fact that folding AK is always painful. However, I can understand the logic that was used to justify the raise, and I don't think it was a big mistake.

On the turn, I would be tempted to raise, if I felt the villain was capable of a tough lay down. At that point, you've shown consistent strength with your hand, so you might be able to get away with it.

I don't think this hand was played poorly. However, I still lean more towards folding the flop.

[Pokey]

Good advice all around -- thanks. Catt in particular said a few things I wanted to address:

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Fundamentally, I don't think it likely that you have 6 outs.

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Agreed; I think I overcounted my outs. I'm not sure what an accurate number would be. There is a distinct possibility (as Emmitt said) of reverse domination here, so my A and K outs could be tainted. The diamond outs might be bad, too. Given this board, folding isn't a bad choice, and it was probably the best choice. I've been running bad lately, and I could easily have been tilting here -- that worry caused me to leave the tables earlier today. From the mixed advice on this board, it sounds like the general feeling is:

fold > raise > call

I'm not sure how close folding and raising are in value, but I'd like to think they're somewhat close (otherwise I made a huge error, and I don't like that idea [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ).

[ QUOTE ]
let's say that someone behind you raises instead of calls, TAA calls, and it is 1 bet back to you with 18 in the pot and you're closing the action -- you're folding?

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Yeah, I think I am, mostly because this would virtually guarantee that NOT currently ahead and I have far less than six outs. Two opponents each willing to call two cold says "YHING" loudly enough that I can drop my AKo, even if it is just one bet. I'd read that as two pair or trips in at least one hand, and that tells me that I'd need to hit twice to win, and that just ain't gonna happen, so I could fold. It was a highly speculative move, and given that, dumping it for even one more bet wouldn't have been hard.

Edit to say: thanks again for all the analysis. It really has helped, and I think the advice in this thread has been terrific.

[wildwood]

When I'm not running well, I reread SSH and it helps me get back on track. There is some good info on playing overcards SSH, pg 335-337. All the best.