Waiting for the turn

chris_a · #1 04-13-2005, 10:38 AM

Was the concept of waiting for the turn applied properly?
Was the turn card "raisable"?
Was is too late at that point?
Should I have expected a check-raise?

All questions I'm not positive about the answer to...

neither sLP-A nor NoReadJoe are bad players.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, SB (NoReadJoe) calls, BB (sLP-A) calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
NoReadJoe bets, sLP-A calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
NoReadJoe checks, sLP-A bets, Hero raises, NoReadJoe 3-bets, sLP-A folds, Hero calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
NoReadJoe bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

KaiShin · #2 04-13-2005, 10:48 AM

Bleh.

On the flop, with your overpair you should be charging people now if they're on a draw. Raise it because everyone who's gonna call is in the hand, and you've got them all trapped. You can't protect against flush draws on any street, so don't bother trying. The way you played it, you got the least money in the pot while you were ahead, and the most money in while you were behind.

Since you're holding the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], I don't mind the turn raise here.

Was it too late for what, at this point?

SB check/3-betting his flush on the turn is pretty stupid, IMO, unless he had some sort of read on you or BB.

chris_a · #3 04-13-2005, 10:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Was it too late for what, at this point?

[/ QUOTE ]

To drive "Joe" out of the pot? I guess that's a results oriented question so you can ignore it.

EDIT: I guess the real question was, was it too late to assume that I might have had the best hand still and that raising was in order.

Thanks for your comments.

@bsolute_luck · #4 04-13-2005, 10:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
SB check/3-betting his flush on the turn is pretty stupid, IMO, unless he had some sort of read on you or BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't get this. what do you mean? yes i hate the c/3-bet too, but what hands do you put SB on with him doing this? when people do this get completely confused [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] and resign myself to call down because i'm so lost.

KaiShin · #5 04-13-2005, 10:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SB check/3-betting his flush on the turn is pretty stupid, IMO, unless he had some sort of read on you or BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't get this. what do you mean? yes i hate the c/3-bet too, but what hands do you put SB on with him doing this? when people do this get completely confused [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] and resign myself to call down because i'm so lost.

[/ QUOTE ]
I mean that if I were SB, I wouldn't check the turn, because noone showed up on the flop to take control of the hand. I would lead out, and pray that someone with a 7 raises me. Of course SB's range of hands here is huge, but once he 3-bets the turn we can narrow it down pretty easily, unless he's a maniac.

We hold the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], so we have odds to call SB's 3-bet. I'd likely fold the river though. I don't think we're good here even 8% of the time.

@bsolute_luck · #6 04-13-2005, 11:01 AM

whatever SB does, hero should still raise the flop and turn though right?

KaiShin · #7 04-13-2005, 11:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
whatever SB does, hero should still raise the flop and turn though right?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, definitely.

KeysrSoze · #8 04-13-2005, 10:49 AM

I'd raise the flop. Even when the heart hits you've got outs and have odds to continue (hopefully he doens't have Ax or Kx of hearts, but you can't know) if you are beat, which you might not even be.

@bsolute_luck · #9 04-13-2005, 10:51 AM

the only thing i'd change is a raise on the flop.

KingOtter · #10 04-13-2005, 11:01 AM

I wouldn't wait on this one with 2 hearts and a pair on the board. First reason is you probably have the best hand, but you need to find out. So since you probably have the best hand, you want money in the pot. But you'll also see if someone like their hand well enough to contest you. I'd go so far as to cap the flop.

If it does get capped and NoReadJoe still comes out firing on the turn, then I call down, as you have tons of redraws, but I don't think your equity is good enough to raise it against 2, or heads-up.

KO