Increase PF Raise?

[bottomset]

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why would you want to get it over 7? 8 sounds about right, but 12 is just ridiculous. Work on lowering your VPIP. You also didn't mention how many hands you've played, but I'm betting it ain't enough, or you would have been wise enough not to ask this question.

Like always, just follow the SSHE chart religiously. Do it even if you don't understand why. Do it even if your feeling like it's wrong. Just do it!

Crovax

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lol

um 10-12 PFR is good for good postflop players, as is a VPIP in the low20s

there is nothing wrong with being 17/8 or so

as for following the chart, well its a good tool for beginning, new players, but as you gain experience, its usefullness drops way off, and you start analyzing the specific situations preflop .. I haven't looked at the chart in months

[bozlax]

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I haven't looked at the chart in months

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I mostly look at it these days when I'm responding to a post, here, and can't figure out why the poster would have played preflop the way he did. It's almost always the way the "loose" SSH preflop chart says to play the hand.

[lautzutao]

Why are people having such a hard time understanding that before you take the training wheels off, there have to be training wheels there to begin with?

[SavageMiser]

What's your steal percentage?

My overall PFR is about 10, and the later the position, the higher the number. I'm at 14.96 on the button, while I'm around 5 just past the blinds. A lot of that 14.96 is steal attempts.

Very good points, and the idea about the small pair raising is definitely something I need to consider. You know, I think VPIP of 19 would be ideal for 1/2. I'll get there.

[Aaron W.]

I'm going to join the small chorus of "the advice in this thread is questionable." Rather than reply to a bunch of things separately, I'll condense it all into a single post.

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why would you want to get it over 7? 8 sounds about right, but 12 is just ridiculous.

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No, it isn't. Your VPIP/PFR numbers vary greatly from table to table if you're playing well. If you're playing a static strategy (which you will need to do for a period of time when you're learning), the benchmarks that seem to work well are 16/8 (beginner TAG) and 18/10 (intermediate TAG). Players dipping into the 20/12 range are either very very good players or players who are quite bad but imagine that they're very very good. By the way, this doesn't mean that if you have those stats that you are that type of player. VPIP/PFR barely scratch the surface of what makes a player good or bad.

I emphasize this every time we get one of these "low PFR" threads. The way to increase your PFR is to look for situations where raising is good. The same A8s can be a limping hand or a raising hand depending on your position, the limpers in the pot, the players left to act, and a bunch of other factors.

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Like always, just follow the SSHE chart religiously...

[From another post] When you're just starting out, following a preflop chart is a great idea, as it gives you a solid foundation for good preflop play.

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Don't just follow the SSH chart religiously. That's a gross misuse of the chart. Think of the chart as a crutch which you use to get you past preflop play until you can play decently postflop. Once you can do that, learn to stand on your own (alternatively, take off the training wheels -- others can help you figure out what that means). I don't even think I'll go as far to say that it's a "solid" foundation. It's just "good enough".

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Depending on your sample size, I think 8-10 is a better range (this may be a little petty).

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You shouldn't be linking PFR to sample size. That's just a misuse of statistical data. As long as OP has a decent number of hands (a couple thousand), there should be enough data for PFR to be meaningful.

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I seem to be raising around 10% of hands at 1/2 (don't have a significant sample size), and I'm winning by far the most from the button (incidentally, my PFR is 4% higher here than any other position, but that should settle down a bit after more hands).

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Your PFR should get higher as you move towards the button. Over my time at Paradise $1-2 full ring games, my PFR ramped up from about 6% in early position to 13% in late position. There are plenty of good reasons why this should be true, but I'll leave that as an exercise.

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a 20/7 game can be profitable. as can a 22/12. as can a 18/8.

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This is all true. The game you pick depends on the table conditions. I'll play a LAG game with a weak loose limper on my right and some tight players on my left. I'll play slightly tighter if a good player limps in front of me.

But I want to add to this statement and say that an 18/8 preflop game is only a weak indicator of postflop play. You can be 18/8 and be weak tight, or you can be 18/8 and play like a solid TAG. There's so much more information beyond those two numbers which you need to consider if you want to learn to play better.

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there is nothing wrong with being 17/8 or so

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More truth. There are many situations which are marginally profitable preflop, but turn into -EV situations because of postflop errors. Your postflop skill determines some of your preflop play. If you're struggling postflop, do yourself a favor and play tighter preflop. You'll put yourself in a position where you can focus on the big postflop concepts without getting bogged down in the tougher spots. Once you get control of those, start loosening up and discovering the more intricate situations which can arise.

[Rev. Good Will]

meh, my full ring game is like 22/13 and I'm perfectly fine with it

I agree with everything tilt wrote in this thread