Curtains Hand #2

I am interested by the call. I am from the "define your opponents hand" school of thought. As raptor said this shows a higher level of post flop play, one that I dont think I have reached yet. You mentioned that a 125 bet on the turn would feel like a weak bet to you. Does that mean you would push over the top of that kind of bet or call again using the same logic as you did on the flop? What type of bet makes you fold? Thinking as the villian, if I decide to fire another barrel at the turn for some reason it will be for at least half pot. Would a bet of 250 or higher make you dump this on the turn?

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
I am interested by the call. I am from the "define your opponents hand" school of thought. As raptor said this shows a higher level of post flop play, one that I dont think I have reached yet. You mentioned that a 125 bet on the turn would feel like a weak bet to you. Does that mean you would push over the top of that kind of bet or call again using the same logic as you did on the flop? What type of bet makes you fold? Thinking as the villian, if I decide to fire another barrel at the turn for some reason it will be for at least half pot. Would a bet of 250 or higher make you dump this on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its hard for me to say...probably I would fold, but again sometimes you just get a feeling due to the timing of their action. In any case I was going to cross that bridge when I came to it, but LIKELY I would fold. I don't trust that most people are able to fire a barrel twice without a hand.

What's villain's range for a pre-flop re-raise followed by the flop lead? The more I think about it, the less I'm convinced hero is ahead.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend, perhaps I didn't express myself very well. i'm pretty drunk but I will try again.

What I may have been trying to say was that your question was so general that you can't get anything but a very vague answer because in that spot you wont make the same move every time. What curtains (or any good player) does at that moment depends on his "feel" of the situation at that time and the decision can only be made by him because he's the one that's there. So asking him what he would do there won't help you in a similar spot because that "spot" has to be taken in context of the game up until that point as well as any reads on villain from previous games etc. and that context will be different EVERY time this situation occurs, the differences will usually be subtle but they will be there. So what do you do if villain bets 125 on the turn, well you call fold or raise and you make the decision largely based on "feel" and any advice saying saying specifically fold, call or raise will not be good advice.

Then again perhaps your question was entirely reasonable and curtains did give you an answer so maybe I was out of line.

Anyhow sorry if I was rude, I really didn't mean to be.

Cheers!

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
and I notice the turn action is not included.

[/ QUOTE ]

For any interested parties.

Turn was pretty standard and not the part I found interesting.

A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] hit and Villian checked like a little woman, curtains made a standard bet and took it down.


nh

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] hit and Villian checked like a little woman, curtains made a standard bet and took it down.


[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, I'm not wild about this. I'd rather let them fire again on the river with garbage. If they actually have an A and I check behind on the turn, their river bet should be about the same as my turn bet, which means that this isn't more expensive when I actually run into an A and have to bet-fold, and it gives me some chance to a) extract more from hands that I'm actually beating that can bluff on the end, and b) not get blown off by a worse hand by a tricky player.

This plan isn't so good if you think that there's a good chance that villain is on a flush draw or that you can move him off of QQ or KK by betting now, but I think these are somewhat less likely.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and I notice the turn action is not included.

[/ QUOTE ]

For any interested parties.

Turn was pretty standard and not the part I found interesting.

A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] hit and Villian checked like a little woman, curtains made a standard bet and took it down.


nh

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm. I check this turn through. That A just hit a huge percentage of the hands that were betting on the flop that you were beating. He's drawing pretty thin with one card to come anyways. Why not take those chips you would bet on the turn and call the river, or maybe bet the river if checked to. I think this may induce a bet from a worse hand and loses just as much against an A as betting this turn would, maybe less if he's scared of the two 8's. I just think it's way too easy for you to be beat on the turn and not much need to protect your hand.

[Melchiades]

Can't his bet fold a hand that beats him though? QQ/KK call a turnbet here 100% of the time?

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
Can't his bet fold a hand that beats him though? QQ/KK call a turnbet here 100% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, he probably calls a single turn bet a decent amount of the time if he's bad enough to minraise out of the sb with those and I'm not firing twice. I think he calls enough that I'm not interested in bluffing him, especially when you consider the other hands in his range.

[curtains]

I felt now that there was some chance I could get my opponent off of KK-QQ (not very high, but some..), but that most likely I simply had the best hand. In the meantime I don't want to have to call 250-300 chips on the river. I'm not very big on bluff catching in sit and gos....it's pretty rare that I do so if I think my opponent will fold to a bet and the pot is sizable.