Curtains Hand #1

Degen · #1 12-09-2005, 06:13 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button (t2640)
SB (t2390)
BB (t1080)
Hero (t890)
MP (t3000)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t95, MP calls t95, 3 folds.

Flop: (t235) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero is all in [t795] .

Final Pot: t235

#2 12-09-2005, 06:17 AM

Well, I definately never play it like this. Any reads? One reason why he might do this is because he is OOP, and if he bet out now and is called, and doesn't improve on the turn, he's in an ugly situation. If he's raised here he probably has to let the hand go, or go all-in anyway. But I don't know. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Degen · #3 12-09-2005, 06:19 AM

How many outs are we counting here? Do the hearts count enough to be 8 additional outs (jack counts for straight) when you don't have the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Overs and straight are both iffy. IMO the only way this gets action is when its beat or a very close race.

If you are of the opinion that this hand has value (meaning you are counting all of your outs as live...) then why not make a value bet instead of potentially driving him out of the pot?

For curtains, do you play this the same if you have the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ?

Freudian · #4 12-09-2005, 06:21 AM

How did a 215 get down to five players in level 2? And how did MP get hold of those 3000 chips?

Anyway, if he is a donkey and calls with Q7, hero is still in pretty good shape. So I like it.

curtains · #5 12-09-2005, 06:22 AM

This hand is totally standard for me and has nothing to do with reads. Basically my hand is too strong to fold if I get raised, as I have too many outs against one pair hands (and some against 2 pair hands), and can't put a large % of my chips in the pot and then leave them in with such a big draw. Meanwhile I don't want to encourage my opponent to come over the top of me or bluff me, when all I have is ace high with a flush draw. Also the 235 chips in the pot are worth something signifigant. For the above reasons allin is clearly correct IMO and everything else is terrible.

btw should I wait some time before responding to this stuff?

curtains · #6 12-09-2005, 06:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How many outs are we counting here? Do the hearts count enough to be 8 additional outs (jack counts for straight) when you don't have the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Overs and straight are both iffy. IMO the only way this gets action is when its beat or a very close race.

If you are of the opinion that this hand has value (meaning you are counting all of your outs as live...) then why not make a value bet instead of potentially driving him out of the pot?

For curtains, do you play this the same if you have the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I play this the same whether my ace is a heart or not. I don't consider that my hand has value! What I mean is I definitely want my opponent to fold. However I cannot bet and then fold myself as my opponent could either be bluffing, or I will often have too many outs to justify folding once the pot is so large.

Sorry if Im not answering the question well, but IMO this is a really standard allin. I barely even look at the table to make this play. I just see the 3 hearts on the board, see that I have one in my hand and that I have only 3 times the pot in my hand, and move allin.

curtains · #7 12-09-2005, 06:26 AM

To summarize - the key to this hand is that you cannot bet and then fold to a raise. Also you don't want action. Thus you move allin to discourage the action. If the pot had 100 chips in it, instead of 250, the play would change.

Please note that Im practically a coinflip here against top two pair. I simply cannot fold this hand NO MATTER WHAT after the flop. This is not at all a close or difficult decision.

#8 12-09-2005, 06:27 AM

I like the push as opposed to a standard bet, but what about checking with the intention of check/pushing or betting any turn?

curtains · #9 12-09-2005, 06:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like the push as opposed to a standard bet, but what about checking with the intention of check/pushing or betting any turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Too much money in the pot, I want it. Also my draw has lost a lot of value on the turn. This is really a dream scenario. Against most hands that give me action, Im about 50% to win...and the larger majority of the time my opponent will fold. Note that Im a favorite (55%) against AQ no heart here.

#10 12-09-2005, 06:36 AM

Out of curiosity, what other hand do you push the flop here with? Do you ever overbet push with a set?

Basically, what I am wondering is do metagame considerations come in here. An overbet push sure looks like a big draw and if thats the only type of hand you do this with it seems like 1 pair hands will look you up often. Maybe I'm overestimating this factor, but I don't play the 215's so I don't know how often you see the same opponents.