very deep stars 10/20 - Page 3

Spladle Master · #21 10-20-2005, 06:18 PM

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If you bet 1K and he makes it, say, 3.5K are you calling or pushing?

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Come on, man, you're better than this.

(It depends.)

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Um...since I have never come anywhere near playing in, let alone beating, a 10/20 game with ~500bb stacks, I really don't think I have any idea what is a good move here. Since Jason does, and said that he would 'welcome' a check/raise, I was wondering what he would do with it.

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'Kay, sorry, I misunderstood. Thought you were asking for a general answer to the question, not a player-specific one (or a player-type that resides at these limits). My bad.

Jason Strasser · #22 10-20-2005, 06:27 PM

If its H@ll and he's in this mode I'm likely calling. I'm also probably going to bet less on the turn (600-700).

By 'welcoming' a check raise, I may be not speaking correctly. I mean that I'm not worried as much about being checked raised off my hand given the stack sizes. Its extremely possible H@ll is in call down mode here, and it's also possible he is giving up. So betting gets him to fold the times he's giving up, and when he's in call down mode its a dream spot because your turn bet is what allows you to plunder him on the river, espeically if you make the straight.

Plus, there are times when you can bet the turn and then brick and outplay him and get him to fold a better hand. It's all situational.

Getting CR is not a happy spot but the benefits of betting outweight it make it the choice despite it sucking sometimes when you may actually have to fold to the CR (like, say he CR AI or something nutty).

TheWorstPlayer · #23 10-20-2005, 06:50 PM

Good post. Thanks.

durrrr · #24 10-21-2005, 12:59 AM

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No way in hell are you checking. Build this pot up you will have ten high or a very strong hand at showdown. I'm probably betting and welcoming a check raise. This is how you win people stack deep.

-Jason

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This was similar to my thinking, however this left the question:
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If you bet 1K and he makes it, say, 3.5K are you calling or pushing?

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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $20 BB (3 handed)

SB ($9054)
Hero ($14147)
Button ($1990)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, SB raises to $80, Hero calls $60.

Flop: ($160) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $120, Hero raises to $380, SB calls $260.

Turn: ($920) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $820, SB raises to $2280,

HERO?
pot = 5500, he has 6300 behind

ahnuld · #25 10-21-2005, 01:06 AM

If you call turn and hit a straight or flush on river, will you get paid off? If the answer is no, I like a push. If yes, hell lead into you for 3-5k on any river card, then call and try to hit.

mgsimpleton · #26 10-21-2005, 01:16 AM

well he's certainly representing an overpair, that's for sure.

so what questions remain:

will he fold it if you push?
is it possible he actually has nothing and thus you have high folding equity?

if the asnwers to these questions are strongly no then just call. there's no way you don't stack him if you hit. he can't put you on a draw given your call of his huge raise, so he will pushthe riv whether he has the overpair or he is b luffing, imo. i would just call here.

FoxwoodsFiend · #27 10-21-2005, 01:24 AM

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If you call turn and hit a straight or flush on river, will you get paid off? If the answer is no, I like a push.

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Pushing here is borderline suicidal.

Dr. Strangelove · #28 10-21-2005, 01:40 AM

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If you call turn and hit a straight or flush on river, will you get paid off? If the answer is no, I like a push.

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Pushing here is borderline suicidal.

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I don't know, this checkraise seems a bit pansified, I would definitely checkraise more with a set with these stacks. If he has an over pair or J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] X [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] /K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] three betting looks like the move, provided he's folding these holdings.

durrrr · #29 10-21-2005, 02:44 AM

he isnt representing an overpair, he has 2p+, air, or a monster draw. If he has an overpair this riase is a bluff of sorts(i.e. he isnt value betting the river).

flawless_victory · #30 10-21-2005, 02:49 AM

if i bet the turn, im pushing over that raise...
the size of his raise, he either has the nuts, or doesnt want to commit himself... i say move in... if he has JJJ/999 and calls it wont be the end of the world...
show him youre ready and willing and have some decent equity as well.