Yes, I limped UTG with 10 BBs

[EverettKings]

Antes 100.

And yes, being 7 makes it more tempting. 9 handed I think I open fold. 8 or 7 handed I limp. 6 is close. 5 or fewer I push.

Everett

[locutus2002]

I was curious what you were getting at.

I wouldn't consider deviating from the standard push for the following reasons:

1) 10 handed 88 might be marginal EV+, but 7 handed its EV++. (you can email a_plus for math)
2) with 10XBB left you're overvaluing your advantage over the field most of which comes from nuanced betting, and ability to get away from hands. With no chips none of these are a factor starting with this crappy 88.
3) Limping UTG on a small stack telegraphs small pocket or vulnerable hand.
4) Your hand sucks ATF.
5) In an unraised pot it will be at least 3 ways and I don't think you'll be able to move a player off of a better hand than 88. In a raised pot you're no better off than you were with an open push.

Good point, Exit, about the blinds coming around more quickly. I feel like your edge in such a shallow-stacked situation is not nearly as large as you think it is, and that pushing might actually be the lower variance play here. There are so few good flops for you, since you've got no way to get a read on the blinds, and a lot of hands that might just fold to your push, like AJ or KQ, might instead push into you, forcing you either to fold the best hand or take a coin flip rather than winning free money from the pot.

I can't really argue with table dynamics, since I wasn't at the table, so if you think your limp really will deter people from playing back at you, alright. But I am curious to know how you plan to play assuming you do see a flop. It's quite likely to have at least one overcard. Do you fold if a blind leads out, and bet if it's checked to you? What if there's another a limper behind you, and an A or K on the flop? Lead out and fold to a raise?

I don't think this is horrible. But, what happens when someone in LP limps, SB completes, BB checks, and flop comes down with at least one over and no 8? Come to think of it, what happens if it folds to BB who checks and flop comes with an over? This hand is just too hard to play postflop. If you're playing for set value, the 5/10 rule for cash games says that this is your own decision, leaning towards a fold--since this is a tourny, this is a clear fold if only set value is considered. Thus, there's really no excuse for allowing yourself to see a flop with 88 here. This is push/fold, and 7-handed, I push this.

[Melchiades]

I think you overestimate your edge and ability to outplay your opponents on the flop with the blinds and ur stack it the sizes they are.

[Pat Southern]

I like it without antes, hate it with antes.

if the table has been active like you say, i'd push because,
a) you probably have the best hand, and you don't have that much of a stack.
b) its 7 handed,
c) an utg limp seems suspicous to me, and anyone who calls and/or raises is likely to have a strong drawing hand, or a hand thats simply better than yours.

even if the button calls you, you have a big enough stack where it would hurt to double you up.

its ok to just take down the blinds+antes for now, as you may need them soon.

[EverettKings]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you overestimate your edge and ability to outplay your opponents on the flop with the blinds and ur stack it the sizes they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I actually agree with this point (that several of you have made). And if I manage to double through, then I will have enough chips to outplay some folks, because I can only play so much better with 10 BBs. And its 7 handed and there are antes, which add profitability and increased success rate to the push. Etc etc.

Good discussion, I like keeping my options open though. There may be a place for the odd open limp but I'm more or less agreeing that this isn't one of them. I just love trying to indentify positions where the obvious, standard play isn't the best one. I guess I'm just a little too eager to get creative. That's just what makes poker fun for me.

Everett

[fnurt]

These threads are always useful.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (8 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t15345)
MP1 (t26273)
MP2 (t20595)
CO (t5140)
Button (t27577)
SB (t29303)
BB (t11850)
Hero (t4795)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Action is on me with the short stack. What should I do?

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
These threads are always useful.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (8 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t15345)
MP1 (t26273)
MP2 (t20595)
CO (t5140)
Button (t27577)
SB (t29303)
BB (t11850)
Hero (t4795)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Action is on me with the short stack. What should I do?

[/ QUOTE ]


I fold here, you can still survive another round or two or three without losing all your fold equity... though i suppose 22 holds up similary well when call as 88.

maybe it's a push.