Can the North secede from the Union?

[lehighguy]

Government officials can be bribed, but they also benefit from mandatory tax collection that ensures thier posistion even if they make tough decisions.

In a system where courts, police, and military are all private market funded who protects the people that don't have the money to provide funding. Let's say you have some poor immigrant and some well funded gang (KKK) starts beating him up. Where does the immigrant go for help. The police are going to tell him that they don't represent him because he doesn't pay for thier services (not because he doesn't want to, but because he doesn't have any capital). The courts will rule against him because thier salaries are paid for by the people perpetrating the crime.

In a total market based system, those with no resources have no recourse against physical coersion by those that are more powerful. You end up with a system of slavery.

Even two well funded organizations may not be able to retain law and order between eachother. If someone has enough money, they can raise an army larger then the one that is suppose to impose the law on them. Or they can buy of the existing army.

It wouldn't be much different from feudal Europe. Nobles using might makes right to impose thier will on weaker nobles. Serfs being slaves with no rights.

Is our justice system perfect, of course not. However, I think it's alot better then one that would gurantee no protections for huge swaths of the population.

If you accept that we need some basic level of government provided law and order in order to protect from physical coersion, then you are going to need some mechanism by which to determine who will be in charge of that power. Hence, a political process.

[vulturesrow]

Another problem with pvn utopian view (parts of with I have much agreement with, just not the totality of it) is that free market conclusions are based on the the premise that all parties have perfect information. Even in our system where we have many regulations that try to get us to this point, we still have inequities of "information wealth", and this is where the smart guys make their money. Dont think those who have better information in pvn's anarcho-capitalist world wont take advantage to better their outcomes over those who dont.

[tylerdurden]

[ QUOTE ]
Government officials can be bribed, but they also benefit from mandatory tax collection that ensures thier posistion even if they make tough decisions.

[/ QUOTE ]

It also ensures their position even if they make bad decisions. Lots of them.

[ QUOTE ]
In a system where courts, police, and military are all private market funded who protects the people that don't have the money to provide funding.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a common objection. The poor will have trouble acquiring any vital commodity or service (food, clothing, shelter, etc). Should the government give itself a monopoly on these as well? These are arguably more important than police protection.

The poor will be accomodated by chairity. There are, for example, legal aid foundations already operating in our current system. Police forces would have market incentives to maintain good public relations (unlike the police we have now) and therefore would provide services to the poor. They might not get the same level of service that the rich do, but it's pretty obvious that we already have that situation in the US now.

[Abednego]

Don't look now but industry is leaving Michigan for sun belt locations. People are moving to FL at the rate of 800 a day. The electoral map is rapidly changing. Used to be carry NY and CA and you were practically in. I am from MI and go there on business frequently ...... are you blind to the blight that surrounds you (assuming you are in Ann Arbor), Meanwhile the south continues to grow in prosperity and population. Newest auto plants as an example are in KY, TN, AL, and SC etc.

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't look now but industry is leaving Michigan for sun belt locations. People are moving to FL at the rate of 800 a day. The electoral map is rapidly changing. Used to be carry NY and CA and you were practically in. I am from MI and go there on business frequently ...... are you blind to the blight that surrounds you (assuming you are in Ann Arbor), Meanwhile the south continues to grow in prosperity and population. Newest auto plants as an example are in KY, TN, AL, and SC etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay. Sounds interesting.

Yes, I know people are moving the sunbelt, and taking industries with them.

Yes, I know the auto industry (or at the very least, auto labor) is stuggling to find stability here in Michigan.

Yes, I know the electoral map is changing.

While interesting, it's not at all relevant to anything I said. Nowhere did I say the North should secede; in fact, I said it sounded unreasonable. In fact, I went even farther than that, saying that Lawrence O'Donnell's suggestion of even a mere reorganization of the federal government was unresonable.

Please read all the posts in the thread.

[Abednego]

yours is a most excellent post