Facing a turn reraise with TPTK

[W. Deranged]

No problem Oscar...

My encouragement was by no means aimed specifically at you, but to everyone. Poker players love to say why they "have to" do stuff. Often they actually do, but it's always good when you have time to think about plays to think about why it is you "have to" do what you have to do.

[AVF2k1]

I totally agree, and since I'm a scientist I should have known better than to claim something without backing it up with facts.

You have at least made me change my way of writing posts, so you are one step closer to your goal.

Cheers

[callmedonnie]

That board is pretty coordinated. I think I call turn and then a river bet, especially barring reads. his preflop play is tough to read.

I know CO folded, but are we assuming he had tens or jacks? maybe slick?

[arch12]

Thanks for the quick responses guys. I actually opted to fold this one. I usually like to consider unknowns more on the passive side (as the majority of players are) and thus respect their raises a lot more. Facing a reraise I don't feel I'll win it enough times to warrant calling down; despite the slim chance I may outdraw an unlikely two pair. I believe a lot of posters will suggest calling down as it is the safe option; but does this situation justify calling two BB when you are confident you are behind?

[W. Deranged]

Calling down is "safe" only in a certain way. Some people would claim that folding is "safer" because you don't risk money. Others would claim calling down is "safer" because you don't risk folding the best hand.

One thing to realize is that in a pot that is not huge with a hand that does not have a lot of outs to improve, in a situation where the most logical range villain can have will have a large percentage of hands that beat you, folding can never be all that bad. It's important to figure out which is better (I think calling is), but it's also important to identify why it is that this situation is kind of marginal.

[Frank Zappy]

You're folding TPTK here?

My thoughts, and I could be wrong, since you have TPTK what better time to wrestle (gain information about your opponent is the more polite way of saying it)? If you don't like the river, call it down.

At this point, it almost dosen't even matter to me what the "Result" is, if I win or lose this particular hand. In the worst case, I'll have paid for the information on my opponent and what better time then when you have TPTK?

I can't stand the idea of folding TPTK here because some unknown person played back at me.

[W. Deranged]

That was a mistake. I got confused with this and another thread. Oops. I call down here but it is very marginal.

Note: fixed original post

[ropey]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't stand the idea of folding TPTK here because some unknown person played back at me.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is crazy. He didn't play back at you once, he played back at you twice. When he bets into on the turn, you can be pretty sure he can beat your pair of queens. And than he re-raises.

I think you have to fold.

-ropey

[arch12]

Deranged, thanks for all the replies. Your posts are typically on point, as is the case here. I think both folding and calling down are very close options in these types of situations. The problem that arises is situations like this can occur quite frequently and I feel selecting the slightly worse option can lead to an ongoing dint in your profits. While every hand is different, and should be played based on a number of variables, I've generally found folding marginal/good hands to a reraise/check-raise on the turn against passive players has worked to my advantage.

[Frank Zappy]

Well, let's see, he coldcalled 2 bets PF, checked/called the flop then bet and raised on the turn so it's a virtual certainty that he made the hand he's representing, because we all know that a poker players would never try to play the board against us even when they only have a tiny piece of the board. Misrepresenting your hand may even be illegal in certain parts of the world.

If we had the nuts we could think about calling, but since he raised (!) it can only mean we fold TPTK and never bother to find out more about our opponent.

This way, next time the same situation comes up, we'll face the same decision: Call (or raise) with the nuts or fold.

Why bother using a hand like TPTK to maybe actually win the freaking pot or worse case risk another 2 or 3 bets to learn more about our opponent?

I could be WRONG and face terrible consequences of LOSING 2 or 3 BETS and then having to face the shame of coming here and posting and being made to feel greater shame for playing in such a wreckless and thoughtless manner.