Poll -- What is Hero's error in this $33 hand

[Steve]

MP2 was a typical $33 player no signs of being crazy. MP1 is an idiot.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter

BB (t910)
UTG (t2030)
Hero (t695)
MP1 (t700)
MP2 (t775)
CO (t952)
Button (t980)
SB (t958)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls t30, Hero calls t30, MP1 calls t30, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t125</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls t95, MP1 calls t95.

Flop: (t450) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t300</font>, Hero is all in, MP1 calls t570, MP2 calls t270.

Turn: (t1590) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP1 is all in, MP2 calls t5.

River: (t1595) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Final Pot: t1595

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Jh Jd (one pair, jacks).
MP1 has 4c Ac (one pair, fours).
MP2 has Kd Kh (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP2 wins t1595. </font>

[Maulik]

Calling PF is an option, a better one may be folding PF give the size of the call in relation to your stacksize.

On the flop, you can muck or push. I prefer mucking, it seems MP1 has a legitimate hand.

[45suited]

You were destined to go broke on that hand my friend. Any way you play it, you're going broke. At least I am.

[11t]

This is a trick question.

The second you see the flop you are going broke so your only option is just not seeing a flop which is prolly -EV.

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a trick question.

The second you see the flop you are going broke so your only option is just not seeing a flop which is prolly -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, it would definately be -EV if the stacks were deeper, but w/ 800 chips, its not -EV to take a pass here.

[Steve]

[ QUOTE ]

I disagree, it would definately be -EV if the stacks were deeper, but w/ 800 chips, its not -EV to take a pass here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maulik are you saying if the stacks were DEEPER you'd be willing to play this a little farther (i.e. bet or call on the flop), but given the size of the stacks its either AI or fold on the flop, so you choose fold?

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I disagree, it would definately be -EV if the stacks were deeper, but w/ 800 chips, its not -EV to take a pass here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maulik are you saying if the stacks were DEEPER you'd be willing to play this a little farther (i.e. bet or call on the flop), but given the size of the stacks its either AI or fold on the flop, so you choose fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

With deep stacks I'd be willing to call the raise PF. If I'm in this hand its likely I'm going broke given all the chips already in the middle. The large bet in a multi-way hand indicates strength more so than a continuation bet. With deeper stacks, I could muck unimproved or depending on the texture of the flop.

[11t]

FWIW I said Hero's mistake was calling the raise preflop, but I think it is marginal. It is a mult-way pot with a donk involved, reasons enough to call preflop with JJ.

Yes, with deeper stacks you could re-raise him on the flop and still get away form your hand. However, with t800 without a good read I think folding this flop is going cost you in the long run.

[45suited]

I think that your biggest error was getting dealt an underpair to the villain's kings. I'm going to guess that 90% of players go broke on this hand. IMO, not going broke means one of two things:

1) You're a world class player, or
2) You suck at poker.

Especially since you were a little short (695) when the hand started, I just don't see that you have a deep enough stack to get away from this.

[ldavidjm]

Maybe its just me but folding PF after you've limped with jacks seems way too weak tight. Just because someone raises a couple limpers doesn't mean they have QQ-AA, in fact, they probably don't have QQ-AA. I agree with 45suited, if you don't go broke you're either awful or one of the top players there are.