Deception on the turn...thoughts?

djoyce003 · #1 11-26-2005, 12:33 PM

Only had a couple of orbits here, so no real reads.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($68.59)
MP ($55.70)
Button ($52.50)
SB ($52.20)
Hero ($61.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, SB (poster) raises to $2.75, Hero calls $2.50, UTG folds.

Flop: ($6.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $6, Hero raises to $12, SB calls $6.

Turn: ($30.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

I know most people don't like the minraise but I figured it was the best way to build the pot and hide the fact that I had a 9.....wasn't real sure what villain had here, but I thought it might be AA or KK, at least that was my thinking at the time. Once I filled up on the turn, based on pot size, I thought I might induce a river bluff, or a river bet with him thinking his AA or KK were good. Like it? Hate it?

4_2_it · #2 11-26-2005, 12:57 PM

I don't like the check because there is no way villain knows the 8 gives you the mortal nuts. If he was willing to call the flop raise , he will call a half pot bet here as well. Coming over the top on the river is going to look strange. Plus you just gave AA-JJ infinite odds to beat you.

Isura · #3 11-26-2005, 01:10 PM

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I know most people don't like the minraise but I figured it was the best way to build the pot and hide the fact that I had a 9.

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Minraise is probably the worst way to hide that you have a 9.

Edit: Remember this is NL50. They don't fold overpairs here and some will call a flop raise with AK. Raise 15-20 on the flop, starting building the pot. Bet 1/2-2/3 pot on the turn (although sometimes I bet full pot if my image is particularly laggy).

Mercman572 · #4 11-26-2005, 01:38 PM

I don't mind it, but I think it might be hard to get paid here regardless. Looks like villain was c-betting AK and that was probably the most you're going to get there. Alternatively, I call the flop sometimes and bet the turn. I'd be interested to see the river, did it go check fold?

orange · #5 11-26-2005, 02:36 PM

I don't like the miniraise. There are many reasons why people mini-raise (cheap way to draw, cheap way to bluff, and to build a pot). IMO, the last reason is the most popular of the 3.

When I see players mini-raise, I see strength for the most part- I think sticking in a real raise on the flop is best- it conceals your hand more than mini-raising IMO.

I think betting 1/2+ pot is best on the turn. By the time you fill up, you should be thinking about what is the best route you can take in order to get villan's stack in the middle. Villan looks like he has a PP. Lets build a pot.

djoyce003 · #6 11-26-2005, 03:26 PM

I think the minraise is ok here because villain basically has only a pot sized bet left after the minraise....that's why I did it....plus if he was on a whiffed AK or something he probably calls the minraise and folds to a large raise.

amoeba · #7 11-26-2005, 03:30 PM

this flop is a bit dry to minraise unless if you are minraising with 33-88 as well.

Mercman572 · #8 11-26-2005, 03:31 PM

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I think the minraise is ok here because villain basically has only a pot sized bet left after the minraise....that's why I did it....plus if he was on a whiffed AK or something he probably calls the minraise and folds to a large raise.

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yep, that's why I think the rest of this hand pretty much depends on whether or not villain has a pair on the river. AK might bet, but I don't think it would be likely

djoyce003 · #9 11-26-2005, 05:53 PM

results....

Guess it didn't elicit as much discussion as i'd hoped.

River was the case 9. Villain open pushed with AK and I called. I think he folds to a turn bet for sure here, making the check extremely effective.

Mercman572 · #10 11-26-2005, 05:57 PM

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results....

Guess it didn't elicit as much discussion as i'd hoped.

River was the case 9. Villain open pushed with AK and I called. I think he folds to a turn bet for sure here, making the check extremely effective.

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NH most times when I do this they check fold the river or check call a pot bet with an overpair [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]