Going all-in early in a big tourney

[nath]

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In a single-table S&G, I would call. In a ring-game, I would call.

But in a 1700+ person tourney, how does the risk of being eliminated from the tourney affect the betting. What I mean is that, in a single table S&G, doubling up early is very valuable because you have the large stack early. In a 1700 person tourney, you can get shifted quickly to a table where you're not the big stack any more. And in the big picture, is having 5000 chips that early in a big tourney really that valuable compared to being eliminated?

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This seems like backwards, results-oriented thinking. If anything, you need to push a hand like this MORE in a large tournament, because you have so far to go to reach the big money, and you only get so many big hands to do so with. Unless your goal is to hang out as long as possible because being in a large buy-in event is really neat, you've got to get it all in here.

"Fear of going broke" should never, ever be a reason to fold a hand. (exception: heavy action in front of you when each elimination is a significant jump in money)

Don't forget about the quads redraw.

[subzero]

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Call, you at least against a higher set you have the runner flush redraw [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

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You undervalue. He also has 1 out to quads.

[subzero]

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Don't forget about the quads redraw.

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Arrrgggh! I'm too late! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[Exitonly]

first, i would have come out betting, that looks like a flop that hit someone, so you can create some nice action by leading out here i think..

But w/ the line you took, it's still an insta-call.. you're getting like 2:1 odds.. he's not going to have an over-set 2 out of 3 times.

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This seems like backwards, results-oriented thinking. If anything, you need to push a hand like this MORE in a large tournament, because you have so far to go to reach the big money, and you only get so many big hands to do so with. Unless your goal is to hang out as long as possible because being in a large buy-in event is really neat, you've got to get it all in here.

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Of course it's result-oriented. I want to win money! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Joking aside, I'll try to elaborate on my thinking: First, I'll point out that I am mainly a ring-game player and only entered this tourney because I won an entry in a satellite.


My thinking is that in a ring-game, accumulating more chips is directly accumulating more money. In a tourney, accumulating chips only indirectly accumulates more money.

Take the posted hand for example. Let's say I folded instead of calling. I'd still have about 1400 chips with the blinds at 10/20. That's still a lot of chips in comparison to the blinds. Any info my opponents get on me from my fold will be lost as soon as I get moved to another table.

I think the example hand I posted is misleading: I don't think I would ever fold trips. My general question is the value of going all-in early in a tourney. Let's say you had AJ on the AJ6 flop. Would you call all-in with two pair? Let's say you had AK. Would you call all-in with one pair? Those two questions seem to be much closer questions than calling with trips on the flop, which you'd probably do over 98% of the time.

[Mez]

folding there is very bad.

I think pocket Jacks or Aces looks more than likely, but you've already put 1,000 in, folding might be the right move, I just don't think I could lay it down.

[Dave D]

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But in a 1700+ person tourney, how does the risk of being eliminated from the tourney affect the betting.

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Not at all.

Someone posted a Borgata Open hand the other day when he thought about laying down a set because the other guy *might* have a set. You can't think this way, you can't play scared poker just b/c its a big buy in event. The other guy probably wouldn't play a set of aces that fast, so you're probably ahead, he might even have top two. Set over set is so rare that you have to pay it off.

[Dave D]

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This seems like backwards, results-oriented thinking. If anything, you need to push a hand like this MORE in a large tournament, because you have so far to go to reach the big money, and you only get so many big hands to do so with. Unless your goal is to hang out as long as possible because being in a large buy-in event is really neat, you've got to get it all in here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it's result-oriented. I want to win money! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Joking aside, I'll try to elaborate on my thinking: First, I'll point out that I am mainly a ring-game player and only entered this tourney because I won an entry in a satellite.


My thinking is that in a ring-game, accumulating more chips is directly accumulating more money. In a tourney, accumulating chips only indirectly accumulates more money.

Take the posted hand for example. Let's say I folded instead of calling. I'd still have about 1400 chips with the blinds at 10/20. That's still a lot of chips in comparison to the blinds. Any info my opponents get on me from my fold will be lost as soon as I get moved to another table.

I think the example hand I posted is misleading: I don't think I would ever fold trips. My general question is the value of going all-in early in a tourney. Let's say you had AJ on the AJ6 flop. Would you call all-in with two pair? Let's say you had AK. Would you call all-in with one pair? Those two questions seem to be much closer questions than calling with trips on the flop, which you'd probably do over 98% of the time.

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Think about what you get to do with over 2 times everyone else's stack if you win here. The EV from that outweighs trying to stall. Your argument makes sense *maybe* when considering an EV neutral call on a flush draw (like say two people who have you covered push and you're drawing for the nut flush with a very small pot b4 their push)