The fair price of gas

[adios]

I think I know what your point is.

[Voltorb]

It has been well established that hydrogen could only work as an energy carrier. Sure, it's easy to make hydrogen using the electrolysis of water, but this requires more electricity than one would ever get back from that hydrogen in a fuel cell. So much electricity in fact, that the vast majority of commercially produced hydrogen is produced from methane. I don't think we're going to start wasting all our natural gas making hydrogen.

So all we need is lots of electricity, right? Yet most electricity, I think over 80%, in the world is made by burning coal or natural gas... this will run out eventually. Fission reactors create lots of electricity, yet the total reserves of uranium on earth will also run out. The only answer is wind, solar, hydro, and wave power. Combined, these sources produce less than 5% of the world's electricity. We need to get started now, while the energy to construct these types of plants is still cheap.

Assuming we could eventually satisfy all world electricity demand using renewable resources, there is still the small problem of losing the sheer power of the internal combustion engine. Imagine an all electric eighteen wheeler. An all electric freight ship. I suppose it could be done, but it will require a bit of engineering. I don't even know how airplanes would be replaced. You'd probably have to scrap the jet engine all together and make electric propellers.

As far as cold-fusion is concerned--I think its theoretically possible. But if we could even get hot fusion to work, discovering cold fusion would be less than momentous. You are correct in saying that we have gotten energy out of fusion, but the best achieved put out 60% of the energy put in. Fusion has remained 20 years away for the last 50 years, scientists like to joke. But improvements are being made. I hold on to hope.

And if this isn't enough to get you worried, imagine a world without plastic. Shriek! We can save something like 70% of all fossil fuels if we generated all electricity without them. I suggest we get started here, and save the oil for plastic.

[Il_Mostro]

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We are working on it. Great. Electric cars, hybrid cars, fuel celled cars, etc.

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You seem to completely miss that the big part about running out of oil has nothing to do with cars. It has to do with food and plastic and medicine and a lot of other things that are important to us
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1.) Electricity can be generated in numerous ways, hydro, solar, wind, NUCLEAR, among others.

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None of these can in a sustainable fasion generate the absolutely staggering amounts of electricity we need if we are to make do without oil.
Fusion might do it, but fusion scientists seems to be fairly conviced that if everything runs smoothly from here on it will be at least 50 years until we see the first comersial fusion power plant. But they said that 50 years ago as well, so let's not get our hope up to high.

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2.)I think a kid with a chemistry set can figure it out.

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You think wrong. The hydrogen economy is a myth, it will not happen.
Here is a link that goes through it in a good way, read it
Hydrogen

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3.) I haven't heard that number, but you probably haven't heard that recently there have been some pretty impressive natural gas deposits discovered.

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I follow the news fairly closely, so I probably have. Give me references and I'll check it out.

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First, cold fusion is theoretically possible, you are totally wrong on that part.

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Um, no it's not. You need to provide me with links to back this one up.
Here is one of mine, stating that it's not possible
Cold fusion
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How is this, we can already do fusion and create energy during the process.

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Um. As far as I've read we have had a fusion reactor running without energy input for about 400 milleseconds. We did not, however, remove any energy from it during this time. And this I have from, for example, a japanese fusion scientist posting at another board I read.

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I suggest that you read up on the subject, but maybe some more accurate material this time.

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I have read a lot. You need to link me to specifics if this is going to lead anywhere. All the points you make here have been refuted many many times, in many many articles I have read, from many many different scientists.

[Il_Mostro]

good post.

A small comment on the electict 18-wheelers and electric airplanes. I don't think that is ever going to happen, especially not the airplanes. There is absolutely no reason to belive we will ever be able to make batteries that good.

And for fusion
Fusion is the power of the future, always has been, always will be.

[Voltorb]

Fusion is fifty years away, I thought it was twenty. Ah, you're probably right. It will most likely be well into the next century anyway.

I had completely forgotten about agriculture. That one got me pretty worried last time a read it. I remember one quote that said something like modern agriculture was nothing more than turning oil into food. Even if all the farm equipment could run on electricity or something, we still need oil to make fertilizer. Must move toward more sustainable agriculture as well.

It's kinda funny that some ranchers don't know what to do with all their cow manure anymore, when just last century people would have know exactly where to put it. I read a recent article about how a rancher's pile got so large and so hot it caught fire. Stunk an entire town up. Anyway, I digress...

[Il_Mostro]

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Fusion is fifty years away, I thought it was twenty. Ah, you're probably right. It will most likely be well into the next century anyway.

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Well, it's not easy to know, of course. But nowhere have I seen anyone claim less than 35 years. For the first comersial reactor that is, numbers differ depending on what you mean by "fusion"

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I had completely forgotten about agriculture.

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If you haven't already, read this article, it's scary reading:
Eating oil

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It's kinda funny that some ranchers don't know what to do with all their cow manure anymore,

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This is something I find strange, over here we still use the manure as fertilizer. As will you, soon enough.