Extracting the most

PSW · #1 10-24-2005, 04:32 PM

with a made hand. Am I wrong not to raise the flop here?

BB is 14/12/2.2 over 40 hands. Not alot of hands but shapping up into a player.

MP3 is 18/6/.8 after 120 hands. These are datamined hands so i don't really know anything about him other than the numbers.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
5 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero completes, BB raises, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP3 calls, Button folds, Hero calls.

I planned on raising on the turn to get both players for an extra big bet.

Turn: (5.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls, BB folds.

Well gee, MP3 beat me to it. Does anyone here hate the overcall?

River: (10.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls.

Well, I get my raise in finally. I am sure no one hates this. The real question is the turn overcall vs reraise... and I guess the flop overcall too.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

Thanks,

psw

RED_RAIN · #2 10-24-2005, 04:51 PM

What do I hate most? Preflop easily, learn to fold after completing with crap. If you don't, you won't win in the bigger games when it's not many to the flop, such as this. No way your call preflop is +EV, especially from this rasier.

Now postflop, I think 3 betting the turn is a must, the raiser isn't gonna fold, and with a flush he may cap muchless keep the other guy in. Too fancy for me.

TheHammer24 · #3 10-24-2005, 05:01 PM

I like check 3-Betting the turn as well

W. Deranged · #4 10-24-2005, 05:03 PM

Check-raise the flop and collect bets while everyone's still interested in the proceedings. Waiting to check-raise the turn and having it check through or having an opponent fold really sucks. You might get raised or the turn might bring a good action card (like, say, the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ) and you'll have the chance to get more love later.

Nick C · #5 10-24-2005, 05:06 PM

I like a flop checkraise, for the reasons W. Deranged gave.

Preflop seems all right to me.

PSW · #6 10-24-2005, 05:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What do I hate most? Preflop easily, learn to fold after completing with crap. If you don't, you won't win in the bigger games when it's not many to the flop, such as this. No way your call preflop is +EV, especially from this rasier.

Now postflop, I think 3 betting the turn is a must, the raiser isn't gonna fold, and with a flush he may cap muchless keep the other guy in. Too fancy for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm getting 7:1 on my second call and closing the action. I don't see how this can be wrong. I am getting great implied odds if I hit a my had (two pair or a FD).

Yes, afterwards, I felt like I didn't really play it right post flop, though I would probably made the most with my turn play had it not been an "action card." I agree that as played, I should have raised the turn at least. MP3 obvously has made Aces up or the flush and I shouldn't be worried so much about what the other player does after I reraise. If he calls the two cold, well bonus. If the MP3 capps, doublebonus.

Thanks very much for the comments. Any other thoughts on the preflop recall?

psw

SeaEagle · #7 10-24-2005, 05:21 PM

Preflop is fine.

After the flop, I don't think there's a clear best way. The board is somewhat uncoordinated and and a flop c/r has the risk of completely drying up action if no one has 2 hearts - although it's the line I most normally choose.

As you played it, waiting to c/r the turn, you have to carry through with a 3-bet. Hopefully BB can't release his overpair or he has a big heart (or both), and MP3 will cap his flush.

It's almost never correct to wait till the river to raise in a multiway pot because draws will pay on the turn but fold on the river.

RED_RAIN · #8 10-24-2005, 05:21 PM

I had the same reasoning that you did about preflop.

Then I talked to bicyclekick and told him how stupid he was when folding. Even when I had hands like A5s.

Then he showed me why it was bad. Because you don't make the money up and you need to hit great monsters which you are likely not to get much money on, espeically 95s.

W. Deranged · #9 10-24-2005, 05:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What do I hate most? Preflop easily, learn to fold after completing with crap. If you don't, you won't win in the bigger games when it's not many to the flop, such as this. No way your call preflop is +EV, especially from this rasier.

Now postflop, I think 3 betting the turn is a must, the raiser isn't gonna fold, and with a flush he may cap muchless keep the other guy in. Too fancy for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bit too harsh on the pre-flop stuff, in my opinion. Completing in a 1/2 structure with any two suited in a four way pot is fine. I probably fold when it's raised behind me, but I'm calling if the pot were five-handed, and so I don't think calling in a four way pot can be that terrible.

PSW · #10 10-24-2005, 05:31 PM

There has been a lot of helpful comments to my hand thus far. For me, this is the winner:

[ QUOTE ]

It's almost never correct to wait till the river to raise in a multiway pot because draws will pay on the turn but fold on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps it shows how green I am, but there it is.

psw