Folding AA on 3rd street

[twolf]

Playing NL .5/1. stud on Prima.

I get dealt As 5h Ac

The bring in is directly to my left and brings in with a duece.

Villain raises minimum after 2 callers to 1.5 with xxAh

1 caller to me and I raise to 2.5 (my 5's are live)

Villan reraise to 9. He has 22 left over after this raise and I cover him. I fold. Should I be folding this with a terrible kicker card? Would probably push with a 10 or better if my kicker was live.

[Chris Callahan]

This fold is not too bad, but I'd gamble some. Sometimes he's full of it and when he's not he often doesn't have that good a kicker, and even when he does you are never worse than about 60-40.

--- Callahan

[Andy B]

I'll say from the outset that I've never played big-bet stud, and I don't foresee it coming up any time soon, either.

I do not understand the structure of this game. Is it played with blinds like hold'em?

Well, gosh, it sure looks like he has the other two Aces, doesn't it? If he has a King kicker, he's a significant favorite over you, bigger than I would have thought. It gets better as his kicker gets smaller, but obviously, his kicker is going to be bigger than yours a lot more often than it is going to be smaller. So in most cases, you're a dog, and in a few cases, you're a tiny favorite. Calling basically commits you to this pot. I'm unclear as to how much is in there already, but it isn't that big, so I don't think you can commit the rest of your stack.

Of course, if he has anything other than Aces, you're a significant favorite. If the guy's a maniac, I don't think you can fold, but how many maniacs do you run into in these games?

[AdamK]

Why reraise to 2.5?
There doesnt seem to be any sense to that. I would raise the pot. And if he goes all in you're probably behind but you must call.
If the stacks are deeper its a different matter.

[Michael Davis]

This is a good fold for sure if your opponent has a big stack. The penalty for being wrong is too great.

However, all no limit/pot limit problems require stack size to do a correct analysis. If your oppnent is shortstacked, say maybe has only $50 more left, I think you should take your chances that he's going balls to the wall on the something else. If he's got $200 in front of him, yeah, goodbye. This variable is of prime importance in analyzing this hand.

-Michael

[nate1729]

[ QUOTE ]
Playing NL .5/1. stud on Prima.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. NL stud. Saucy.

[ QUOTE ]
I get dealt As 5h Ac

The bring in is directly to my left and brings in with a duece.

Villain raises minimum after 2 callers to 1.5 with xxAh

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems strange to me. If he's a crafty player he might be raising the to build the pot with a drawing hand. But he's probably not. On the other hand I've been told that min-raising is a common strong tell online, so maybe this screams aces.

[ QUOTE ]
1 caller to me and I raise to 2.5 (my 5's are live)

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but that sucks. The small raise here sacrifices all the advantages of raising while retaining all the disadvantages. You're giving him a chance to put you in the worst possible position...

[ QUOTE ]
Villan reraise to 9.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which, of course, he does.

[ QUOTE ]
He has 22 left over after this raise and I cover him.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if you call, there's about one pot-size bet left to be made. I'm assuming the original caller folded, by the way. The 'nice' thing here is that you have a rather simple decision here, because calling commits the rest of your stack; you don't need to worry about implied or reverse-implied odds. You are, essentially, risking $30 to win $50 here if you call (any hand that's worth a call will be worth a call on fourth, barring very weird things... and it seems that the money's gonna get in there no matter what. Check-check would almost certainly be a big mistake of some sort by someone.) From what other posters tell me, you don't have the odds if you put him on aces with a good kicker. Aces with a random kicker, and you might have to push or call (I'd be tempted to use my position here on later streets.)

[ QUOTE ]
I fold. Should I be folding this with a terrible kicker card? Would probably push with a 10 or better if my kicker was live.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's probably a good fold. I'd probably also raise all-in with a good kicker, barring a better read on my opponent. Against the standard online opponent I'm putting him on a near-random kicker; for that reason I think a call here is almost justified, though your fold can hardly be criticized.

[twolf]

I think this hand is where my holdem got in the way of stud thinking. I reraised small thinking it would knock out the other limpers, but not thinking that I might be facing a big reraise. After I reraise this opponent is not reraising me with a 3-flush and there are very few kickers that I beat.

So my alternative play is trying to catch a bigger card on 4th street but letting in about 4 other players that may catch a good drawing hand on 4th and outdraw both of us.

Barring my terrible reraise on 3rd, what should I have done after my opponent made his initial raise if I suspected my opponent had Aces?

Not reraising at all and letting in lots of players sounds like a bad idea and reraising big enough to be pot committed to call villains all in when a dog sounds just as bad.

[Nick_Foxx]

never played no limit stud, but i woulda just flat called his raise on 3rd st and taken 1 off

[AdamK]

Not reraising on 3rd is terrible. You raised $1 which amounts to the same thing. I raise the pot on 3rd; you dont know he has AA, you know 1 of your Aces is dead, you cannot let people in cheap.
Everyone else folds, he goes allin for $30 or so - call and have done with it.
To me its a no-brainer.
Stack size is paramount, if anyone else with a big stack flat calls the reraise - i dont like it.
But, I would not give any respect to players with only around 50 dollars or so in front of them. I wouldnt try to 'second-guess' myself here.
Be happy to get it heads-up allin and have done with it.

[twolf]

[ QUOTE ]
To me its a no-brainer.
Stack size is paramount, if anyone else with a big stack flat calls the reraise - i dont like it.
But, I would not give any respect to players with only around 50 dollars or so in front of them. I wouldnt try to 'second-guess' myself here.
Be happy to get it heads-up allin and have done with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost nobody buys in for the full amount of 100 in this game. The average stack is probably around 40-50. Alot of times there is nobody at the table with 80+.

He doesnt have to have aces to do this, but this opponent was not a dumb opponent either, he almost always has aces here. I appreciate your reply, but your thinking is careless because I would not like to get my money in when I have the worst of it(most of the time).