wait til turn to bet big to prevent draws?

[texasrattlers]

I have been reading 2+2 for about a month ... first post. I hope that by learning from y'all at this forum my game will someday approach the level many of you are at.

In a recent $15 Stars turbo, I went out in 7th place in the following hand. 4 players in for BB 100, about evenly stacked around the starting chip count. Hero in SB w/

9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Flop is

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check hoping to check-raise. One player bets 200, Villain calls, and I go all in over the top. Villain calls w/ A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Turn is 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and cruel river is 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I am thinking if I had went for a small re-raise on the flop, then the villain would have folded to a big bet after the turn since the turn card gave him no help. This minimizes my risk of losing to a draw and maximizes my chance of pulling down the pot without going to the river. It was too easy for the villain to call the all in with TP and flush draw after the flop.

[DCIAce]

This hand is going to see the river.

On the flop, A4 is a 51-49 favorite.. After a blank turn, your T9 is a 64-36 favorite.

With 1000 in the pot on the flop, even if you'd flat called, I can't imagine that you have enough chips to make him fold the turn. For him to make an incorrect call, you'd have to bet over ~1750 if he knew your hand. Also, there's a chance that he has the best hand, so he's not going anywhere unless you both have 3000+ behind, and he'd probably still call. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Dooner]

I have to agree with DCIAce. I do not think there is much you could have done to make this guy fold. With top pair and the nut flush draw, he probably would have followed you to the river, no matter how many chips you had. Wish I had some other advice for you, but there really isn't much more that you could have done in this instance. Just chalk it up to a bad beat, scribble some notes down about the guy (if your site is capable of that), and sign up for the next tournament.

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[DCIAce]

[ QUOTE ]
Just chalk it up to a bad beat, scribble some notes down about the guy (if your site is capable of that), and sign up for the next tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the things I was trying to say, is that it wasn't a bad beat. The villian was a favorite when the chips went in. I tried to make this clear, since it seemed to have a bad-beat-story-edge on it. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Also, I doubt a "will go all-in with top pair+nut flush draw on flop" note would be of much use. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[stupidsucker]

If the BB was 100 chips then what you should have done is fold preflop IMO.

I wont be seeing the flop with A4s either, but if I flop what he did,you can count on me seeing the river too.

[lorinda]

I'll often wait until the turn in these spots, especially if I think the opposition is very poor and predictable.

Edit: You need to be very sure of their holding for this play to be correct.

Lori

[texasrattlers]

I agree this is not a bad beat. I am trying to find a way to minimize the chances of him catching his card -- the only way to do this I think is to prevent him from seeing the river. He is right to call an all in on the flop, but if I show strength on the flop by re-raising, then go all in first to act on a rag turn card, he has to know I have his A4 beat (at least by an A w/ high kicker and probably a set or two pair). At that point I think there is a pretty good chance he will not risk the remaining 2/3 of his chips on a one card flush draw.

Just the way I see things right now. Be interested to hear other thoughts.

[adanthar]

If you minimum raise this board or something the next thing that will happen is that he'll go all in anyway.

Once he's seen the flop he's seeing the river so I recommend you go all in preflop on every hand to prevent this from happening [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[texasrattlers]

I do not think he goes all in if I raise. I know I didn't explain this well but a player ahead of Villain bet the initial 200 which he called and then I bet all in over the top. If instead of going all in I just raise 200, I think it is likely Villain will just call this bet like he did the first bet.

[adanthar]

I'd have called and then raised all in to the minraise, but if he just calls, that pot is around t1600 on the turn and you have (x) behind where x is (far?) less than 1600.

He's pretty much going to call the turn no matter what. There are 200+15 regulars that would call no matter what (though most of them would never limp there) so at a 15 Stars turbo...nope, unpreventable.