Bottom 2 Makes me Sick (occasionally)

MLG · #1 08-01-2005, 07:37 PM

3rd level of the PP Million. I have 2700 after crushing AJ with KJ. 3 limpers and I complete inthe SB with J9o. Flop comes Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], I have no clubs. I lead for 120 into the 150 pot. EP limper makes it 350 and it folds back around to me. I'm pretty sure I have no good options, so what's my least bad one.

Edit: EP Limper started hand with 2100.

kyro · #2 08-01-2005, 07:43 PM

If you're ahead, it's not by much. And if you're behind, you need a lot of help. If I'm calling, I'm only going any further on a non club/A/K/Q/T/8 turn.

So basically, I can't see how folding can be terrible here.

ThrillFactor · #3 08-01-2005, 07:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you're ahead, it's not by much. And if you're behind, you need a lot of help. If I'm calling, I'm only going any further on a non club/A/K/Q/T/8 turn.

So basically, I can't see how folding can be terrible here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you leading out on a non-scare turn or risking a free card?

If you're raised on a blank turn, what do you do?
If you're called, what's your river plan?

Edit: Hands like this get me in trouble all the time, so I'm mega-curious about this one.

ThrillFactor · #4 08-01-2005, 07:47 PM

What is EP's stack?

Scary board full of draws and he doesn't appear to be worried about keeping the pot small.

skoal2k4 · #5 08-01-2005, 07:53 PM

There's a lot of hands that fit into this flop that an EP limper will play. I just don't see how you can be ahead most of the time here? A fold isn't bad, but neither is a call necessarily. If he is on a draw, you might get it checked on the turn and you both get a free card. If I call the flop bet, I'm more than likely laying this down to a turn bet UI though. Tough hand and tough situation [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Lloyd · #6 08-01-2005, 08:00 PM

What about checking the flop and seeing the action. If the flop is bet and raised it certainly gives you good information. I think a flop with that texture will almost certainly be raised when led out from the SB. But are you up against top pair, a set, a draw, a slow played overpair? And if it's checked around that gives you good info as well.

skoal2k4 · #7 08-01-2005, 08:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What about checking the flop and seeing the action. If the flop is bet and raised it certainly gives you good information. I think a flop with that texture will almost certainly be raised when led out from the SB. But are you up against top pair, a set, a draw, a slow played overpair? And if it's checked around that gives you good info as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got nothing wrong with doing that either... I think this is one of those situations where a lot of answers would generally "acceptable"

Stipe_fan · #8 08-01-2005, 08:36 PM

I am not so sure about checking it. If someone bets, he could have a hand or maybe he is positional betting the flop. I think you need to lead and if you are raised, I know it sounds weak, but you needs to release it. I would hate myself but I think it is the right play.

I don't think a check-raise will accomplish anything so I would definitely rule that out.

Lloyd · #9 08-01-2005, 09:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am not so sure about checking it. If someone bets, he could have a hand or maybe he is positional betting the flop. I think you need to lead and if you are raised, I know it sounds weak, but you needs to release it. I would hate myself but I think it is the right play.

I don't think a check-raise will accomplish anything so I would definitely rule that out.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would bet that you will be raised nearly 100% of the time after leading out from the SB. You're not going to be given credit for 2 pair and with so many limpers there's a good chance of somebody having top pair who will raise. I think you'll just be wasting a lot of chips. If it's folded to LP who raises, then it could certainly be positional in which case a call and lead out on the turn or raise would be in order.

Stipe_fan · #10 08-01-2005, 10:57 PM

Lloyd, do you think you get repopped that often? I guess it comes down your preceived image. If your image is tight you may be able to take it down with a bet. If your image is loose and possible wreckless then your bet, like you stated, would be a waste of your stack.

Is there any bet that would make sense, in your eyes? Do you think a 1/2 pot bet or maybe a pot sized bet. I know that if you are raised then one has to assume they are protecting a hand and then you could release it. I really think you need to bet for information.

Maybe a 1/2 pot sized bet?

Stipe