BB, TP-NK

[toby]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO checks.

Turn: (2 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, SB folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

River: (5 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 folds, CO calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Hope CO doesn't have a 9 or some wierd straight, right? Otherwise I feel pretty safe. Or should I? Thoughts?

[MarkL444]

This board is terrible. You need to view your hand with its relative strength to the board. TPNK is never great, but I think its pretty worthless here. I guess you could check call the river if you wanted.

[toby]

Other than a 9 for trips, a rather odd straight, and AK beat me here. The Queen plays as the kicker, so I don't need to worry about my 2 as a kicker. Why do you think my hand is worthless here?

[MarkL444]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you think my hand is worthless here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well its not totally worthless. But I wouldnt bet out on that river. You are at best chopping with any K, its VERY easy for someone to have 2 pair with all that paint, a 9 beats you, theres a 4-straight on the board. think about what hands someone will bet that you beat, theres not that many of them. (although of course there are some)

[Tk79]

Preflop - Obvously your not gonna raise or fold so thats pretty clear

Flop - In this situation I bet out hoping to take it down right here. Your hand is not that strong but you cant figure anyone for too big of a starting hand since its an unraised pot and .50/1 games are frequently raised preflop. I also want to push out any A,9, or Q. You may have the best hand with 3 opponents but it is vulnerable and thats why you need to protect it with a bet. Anyone with a J,T or 2 hearts is getting infinate odds to draw to their hand if you check it through.

Turn - I bet the turn too. If you get raised you can probably come to the conclusion that your beat. But since you've showed no aggression thus far (nor has anyone else) the bettor may be assuming his Qx is good since its been checked thru to him twice. A call is weak but better than a fold.

River - Depending on the size of the pot I would probably check/call the river. Showing weakness may induce your opponent to represent a hand he didnt make but I dont see anyone calling the river with a worse hand. If you bet and are called your probably beat and if you are ahead they fold. Lose/lose.

[el gato]

Hi Toby,

Not to be too critical, but your play on this hand is a little strange. I understand check-calling the turn, but why bet the river?? The 10 hurts your hand, and to some degree so does the 9 on the turn because a free card was given on the flop.

[PokerIsLife]

I think the only questionable play was the bet on the river. You're not going to get calls from lesser hands, and might get raised and end up have to pay 2BB for a showdown. Anyone that calls you probably has a K anyways, so you're going to have to chop. Of course, it's possible that a Q might call, but I'm still leaning towards check/call.

[ArchonsEngine]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop - In this situation I bet out hoping to take it down right here. Your hand is not that strong but you cant figure anyone for too big of a starting hand since its an unraised pot and .50/1 games are frequently raised preflop. I also want to push out any A,9, or Q. You may have the best hand with 3 opponents but it is vulnerable and thats why you need to protect it with a bet. Anyone with a J,T or 2 hearts is getting infinate odds to draw to their hand if you check it through.

Turn - I bet the turn too. If you get raised you can probably come to the conclusion that your beat. But since you've showed no aggression thus far (nor has anyone else) the bettor may be assuming his Qx is good since its been checked thru to him twice. A call is weak but better than a fold.

River - Depending on the size of the pot I would probably check/call the river. Showing weakness may induce your opponent to represent a hand he didnt make but I dont see anyone calling the river with a worse hand. If you bet and are called your probably beat and if you are ahead they fold. Lose/lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the way I play these "BB special" TPNK hands, too. I don't understand why you wouldn't bet out with TP on this flop; if there's a raise, you can confidently let it loose UI on the turn. If not, you're most likely ahead unless against a very passive player.

On the turn, I bet out and fold to a raise, as there's no other way to know if my TPNK is beaten--if you don't bet out, you have to blindly call a bet (or fold what may be the best hand) because you're not strong enough to raise, and so you'll never know if you're behind until SD.

After that, though, the river card scares me the most--I'm check/calling. Like it was said before; no better hand folds and it's unlikely a weaker hand calls. If you check, you might get a free showdown or a player bluffing his missed draw against what he sees as yours.

Please correct my logic here if I'm off base, as I play hands like this almost every session--if it's wrong, I'd like to fix it.

--ArchonsEngine

[davelin]

Typically with TPNK hands in the blinds with not many behind (like in this case) I bet out and back-off to a raise. You may be out-kicked but I think your top pair is usually good.

Against more players after me, I check with the plan to -
1) fold if it's two back to me
2) check-raise a late bettor hoping to shut out the rest of the field
3) lead out the turn if checked through and the turn isn't too scary

Just IMO but like others I find TPNK in early positions difficult to play.

[Yobz]

[ QUOTE ]
2) check-raise a late bettor hoping to shut out the rest of the field


[/ QUOTE ]
There are 2 BB in the pot, check-raising is to make it 2 to call is like killing an ant with a BFG9000