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  #1  
Old 08-31-2005, 11:39 PM
splashpot splashpot is offline
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Default What\'s the standard play with top pair middle kicker situations?

Such as this one? I know this is probably very elementary, but I'm just looking for clarification.

***** Hand History for Game 2632494932 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:15344772 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Wednesday, August 31, 23:33:08 EDT 2005
Table Table 19580 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 5: oldmandsea ( $820 )
Seat 3: Nifty59 ( $640 )
Seat 1: cfelixd ( $760 )
Seat 9: boseph73 ( $730 )
Seat 4: dredogg314 ( $890 )
Seat 8: bigturn300 ( $575 )
Seat 6: griz_98133 ( $1945 )
Seat 10: Translucity ( $775 )
Seat 2: vigoso420 ( $865 )
Trny:15344772 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Translucity [ Jc Th ]
cfelixd folds.
vigoso420 folds.
Nifty59 folds.
dredogg314 calls [15].
oldmandsea calls [15].
griz_98133 folds.
bigturn300 folds.
boseph73 calls [5].
Translucity checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5s, Jh, 9h ]
boseph73 checks.
Translucity bets [60].
dredogg314 calls [60].
oldmandsea folds.
boseph73 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7c ]
Translucity bets [150].
dredogg314 raises [300].
Translucity.....?
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  #2  
Old 08-31-2005, 11:45 PM
Havok Havok is offline
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Posts: 112
Default Re: What\'s the standard play with top pair middle kicker situations?

Fold PF. Jack ten offsuit is a weak hand that should only be played in a multiway pot that hasn't been raised. Or by representing strenght to steal the blinds. But, here the blinds are so low its not worth it. Now on the flop you have top pair, but what do you think Villian is raising with. My guess is Ace Jack or even worse maybe 10/8 and your drawing dead. Fold!
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  #3  
Old 08-31-2005, 11:46 PM
Nick B. Nick B. is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the standard play with top pair middle kicker situations?

[ QUOTE ]
Fold PF. Jack ten offsuit is a weak hand that should only be played in a multiway pot that hasn't been raised. Or by representing strenght to steal the blinds. But, here the blinds are so low its not worth it. Now on the flop you have top pair, but what do you think Villian is raising with. My guess is Ace Jack or even worse maybe 10/8 and your drawing dead. Fold!

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps like a free flop from the bb???? Is it ok not to fold from there?
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  #4  
Old 08-31-2005, 11:47 PM
splashpot splashpot is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the standard play with top pair middle kicker situations?

[ QUOTE ]
Fold PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly you didn't read the history well enough.
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  #5  
Old 08-31-2005, 11:51 PM
Havok Havok is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the standard play with top pair middle kicker situations?

Reply, yup my mistake. I thought you were in a different position. Won't happen again. So I like the bet on the flop, but I still think you have to fold to the reraise on the turn. I just think it means a hand that has you beat.
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  #6  
Old 08-31-2005, 11:58 PM
DeathbySuckout DeathbySuckout is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the standard play with top pair middle kicker situations?

I think you played it well. You have to fold to this reraise though, he's got 2 pr or a set.
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  #7  
Old 08-31-2005, 11:58 PM
splashpot splashpot is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the standard play with top pair middle kicker situations?

I did in fact, fold. But I see this kind of play a lot. I'll have what I figure to be the best(but vulnerable) hand on the flop so I bet it. Where I usually end up folding when I encounter any resistance at all. It bothers me that I see that sort of min-raising so often. I don't know if it should bother me, but it does. So the flop bet looks ok? What about the turn bet? Do some of you just give up and check/fold the turn?
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  #8  
Old 09-01-2005, 12:02 AM
bluefeet bluefeet is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the standard play with top pair middle kicker situations?

Just talking about this tonight with someone...

I def. think the flop IS the place to "get'r done". But leading from the blinds on this "draw friendly" flop isn't going to define your hand very well. Check/calling isn't too bad, except you'll likely face a larger check/call on the turn when the other "non-nuttinTP, MP, whatever" is getting tired of you "chasing your flush".

On a draw flop like this, I'd rather look to check/raise the flop...assuming you get a weak probe kinda lead (folding to a reraise, or to a sizable lead w/o any blood lost). I think you'll get a little more respect from your position with this line. It's just too difficult to proceed on the turn without gaining any info. If you get called? Hmmmmm. Pushing the turn isn't too bad in many cases. But this early, I'd just put on the breaks, looking to ditch a failed flop effort w/ a hand that wasn't all that great to begin with.

On a non-drawing flop, I do like the lead. Given a little more credit for a hand, you'll have a little more control over the pot size when you proceed to the turn. .
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  #9  
Old 09-01-2005, 02:06 AM
bruin bruin is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the standard play with top pair middle kicker situations?

I like the way you played it. Once he min-raises you on the turn, just dump it and move on to the next hand.
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  #10  
Old 09-01-2005, 08:46 AM
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Default Re: What\'s the standard play with top pair middle kicker situations?

[ QUOTE ]
On a draw flop like this, I'd rather look to check/raise the flop...

[/ QUOTE ]With a draw, won't many players take the free card rather than bet the flop? I wonder what the chance is that you'll get a bet from a drawing hand which will allow you to raise.

Quite possibly I'm not betting my drawing hand enough and thus have a misconception about how often a bet will come.
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