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  #1  
Old 12-17-2005, 05:41 PM
godofgamblers godofgamblers is offline
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Default Your call?

Hi, just some background info for this controversy. I'm in a college dorm, and we've been playing for about a year and a half. Nothing ever in dispute really happened, and I'm recogized as the best player, so usually I call most rules. This time it involved me, so didn't make the decision. I'm the classic LAG player, raising or calling raises 6/10 hands preflop, and as a result, busting many aces and kings with 26's and such. That day, indeed I had busted a couple kings and queens with a few flopped two pairs or trips with 68 and the such, annoying a bunch of people. We're all great friends outside of poker and even inside poker it's a really friendly atmospher, but onto the story.

Now the most important part is the way I bet. I grab a stack of chips, and release two chips at a time horizontally across the "pot area". For example, I'd usually grab about 12 $1 chips, and lay down 2 stacks of $2 each for 4 dollars total all while my arm hasn't left the pot, but not really in one motion. Kind of like when pros play with their chips before putting in the pot.

Now this time i pick up QQ UTG+2 and raise it up and amazingly get 6 callers. The pot is huge, and UTG bets something like 3 dollars into a QJ9 two suited flop. I immediately say "I'll make it...", (which is usually what I say, we never say raise) and I grab a stack of chips and already am in the process of making piles of 2 chips each as usual, when I realize the pot is already 25 dollars and I have max 12 bucks in my hands with 6 callers. So i placed 5 piles of $2 each, and announce 18 before my arms leave the pot area and I go back to get more. One of my friends says I can't do that and it's string betting. I said my arms were still in the pot when I said it, and this is a homegame and it might even be true in the casino that its a legal move. He said no I cant do that because its string betting. I said I announced 18 even before the last pile of chips was placed in the betting. He said no, and I said ok lets post this on twoplustwo and find what the forums say for $50 bucks. I mainly said it because I knew this pot was going to be at least 50 bucks, and if I really only raised it to 10, I'd prob get a bunch of callers and lose the pot even with top set. He agreed so now here we are...

Would you accept this action, especially if you were in a home game, and secondly what would the casino ruling be?
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  #2  
Old 12-17-2005, 05:44 PM
godofgamblers godofgamblers is offline
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Default Re: Your call?

I'd like to act that while I put my chips in, my hands never/didn't leave the pot area, and I always announce what I'm betting. I thought the most important part was that I announced 18 before my hands left the pot area, especially while I was still holding my last few chips in my hands, but didn't release them yet as I was still making piles like I normally do. Bad habit though.
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  #3  
Old 12-17-2005, 06:43 PM
Precept2 Precept2 is offline
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Default Re: Your call?

I'd probably have a problem with this if I were at the table. We have a guy who grabs an entire stack and drops the bottom couple of chips. I think he's guaging his opponent's response while dropping chips, maybe deciding to drop more than he originally planned. I think it's a form of angling.

As you noted, the pros play with their chips "in front of them" before shoving them into the betting zone, but not the pot itself. They play with them, while they think and decide what they want to do. Then they put them in.

Think before you act/bet. It's a situation that could have been avoided.
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  #4  
Old 12-17-2005, 06:44 PM
PokerGoblin PokerGoblin is offline
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Default Re: Your call?

Two things.

Your post contains a lot of what seems to be unnecessary information. Clean it up to where the pertinent info is clear and you will probably get more responses.

For example, instead of the whole first paragraph, which has nothing to do with the problem, just say something like:

"Regular home game in my dorm room." The rest of the details given are irrevelant.

Try to include the stakes and # of players.

Also, break your story into smaller paragraghs. It is easier to read.

It sounds like you are acting like a douche by the way you nonchalantly throw your chips around and let them figure out how much you intended to bet.

Instead, announce your bet verbally without any physical action past the 'bet line', then put the appropriate number of chips out.

From what I decipher from your description you put a bunch of chips out past the bet line, then reached for more. That is a string bet. You said "I'll make it..." and then put a bunch of chips out there. It wasn't until you realized how big the pot was that you knew you needed to bet more.

Stop using that phrase. Just act deliberate and say 'raise'.

Had you said "$18" while you're still stacking chips on the felt, you are committed to betting $18 no matter how many chips you put out there. Once you just stacked a few chips out there, you were committed to that.

Later
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  #5  
Old 12-17-2005, 06:48 PM
smoore smoore is offline
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Default Re: Your call?

you win. it's not a string bet because you hadn't completed your action.
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  #6  
Old 12-17-2005, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Your call?

In addition to what PokerGoblin said, just because you are the "best player" doesn't mean you know what you are doing. Lots of weird stuff being done/said that you wouldn't see at a real poker game. Get a rule book and establish a rule sheet to be used for your game so there are no questions. If you were in the process of betting as you say, but have not completed your betting and have realised you are short on chips and state an amount you want to bet, it is not a string raise. Easiest thing to do is state what you want to do before you act.
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  #7  
Old 12-17-2005, 11:41 PM
Snarf Snarf is offline
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Default Re: Your call?

[ QUOTE ]
Would you accept this action, especially if you were in a home game, and secondly what would the casino ruling be?

[/ QUOTE ]

a) Home Game. Allowed.
Spoken bets are binding. If the chips and the spoken differ - what is spoke is what reigns. Since you stated an amount WHILE you were still placing chips in the center - I'd say the verbal is what was binding.
My game would handle it this way - We'd allow it this once - EVEN if we felt you were angling a touch...just in the spirit of gamesmanship and all....but we'd make sure you knew for next time to state 'raise' or the dollar amount PRIOR to shoving chips in the center. Next time we'd make you take it back.
So...EVEN THOUGH I think its an easily allowable bet in a home game - I do think its closer than you think. You should know enough to know to STATE 'raise.' It could really be seen as angling what you did and I wouldn't blame a host for not allowing it....but we would allow it in my game - the first infraction at least...but maybe not the second one.

2) Casino....50/50....
Honestly it could go either way this one. All depends on the nuance that you can't/didn't describe. If the chips in the center was simultaneously stated with the $ amount w/no peering around at other players in the proces...then YEAH. I would think a casino would allow it. Otherwise it gets dicey.
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  #8  
Old 12-18-2005, 04:03 AM
smoore smoore is offline
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Default Re: Your call?

You again? Have you ever been in a casino? The answer is obvious. I'll let others elaborate.
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  #9  
Old 12-18-2005, 11:44 AM
Snarf Snarf is offline
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Default Re: Your call?

[ QUOTE ]
You again? Have you ever been in a casino? The answer is obvious. I'll let others elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. fair enough. no. I was guessing.

Bad guess I take it?
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  #10  
Old 12-18-2005, 12:51 PM
Matt Williams Matt Williams is offline
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Default Re: Your call?

All I know is that if you think you always bust aces and kings with 2-6o, I want to play against you.
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