Was this collusion and what should I have done about it?

[Abagadro]

Playing 4-8 at the Bellagio this Sunday. I only get down to Vegas a couple times a year so I am a bit out of my element/comfort zone as far as rooms go or I may have acted differently.

There is a father and son in seats 9 & 10 of a game. They are putting on a act of being really clueless and stupid. The father acts like he never knows how much the bet is, when it is his turn, etc. Yet, he is doing things like limp/reraising rockets and checkraising the hell of out people which I woulnd't usually associate with 'clueless' players. They are almost always in a hand together and raise a fair amount.

The hand is question the hand itself is not critical and action is pretty standard with a generally raggy flop until the river when it is just the three of us (started out 7 handed to the flop). It is a J and the father (who started in the SB) checks like he has been doing the entire hand, the son bets. He has been bluffing a bit so I call thinking I am likely beat but the pot is decent so it is worth the one bet as there is a chance I am still ahead. The father has shown no aggression whatsoever during the hand. He then raises, the son three-bets. I fold and the father says "just the two of us? I fold" and mucks his cards. I'm a bit stunned and exchange looks with another decent player at the table and he seems to think that is BS as well.

I rack up and leave without looking at the cards dealt to me in the next hand.

Questions: Was this collusion? Should I have done something other than just get out of the game? Did I overreact?

Also any comments on my thinking/actions on the river with action still to go is appreciated.

Thanks for the replies.

[Lottery Larry]

It sure smells. I would have demanded to see the hand and called the floor to get them on record.

Since there was no showdown, can the dealer fish the cards out of the muck since this seemed to clearly be collusion?

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
Since there was no showdown, can the dealer fish the cards out of the muck since this seemed to clearly be collusion?

[/ QUOTE ]

The dealer can't, but the floor can take a look if he is so inclined.

I was in the same situation but at little worst this weekend at the MGM playing a 2/4-limit table. There were about four to five people sitting at the table and they were all related. There were constantly speaking Arabic to each other. The dealer was constantly warning them about the English only rule. One of the ladies (non-English speaking) was constantly warn not to show her cards to a man (brother or husband) sitting behind her who was not even in the game, just sitting behind watching, which I though was kind of weird that they would allow that in itself. Then she stops playing and he took over her spot. Then two of the men started to comment on how bad everyone was playing. And soon as the hand was dead and the dealer started shuffling they would make comments in Arabic and you could tell by there eye movement and hand gestures they were making disparaging remarks towards players at the table. One of the gentlemen made an open comment in English towards me as to how I played my hand, which I won at the show down, I was a little miff at the comment and snapped back telling him to play his hand and not worry about mine. There was a little heated exchange between him and I, the Room Manager came over and give us both a warning. Played three hands more and won $60 from the clan and left. This was my first time playing in Vegas; all in all it was a great experience except for the hour or so with the family poker game. I haven’t played much in Casino but what action can you take as player in this type of situations. I felt as if the Arabic conversations were asking for advice, the men seemed to be decent players and the woman were fairly novice. What can a player request from the house under these situations.

[ QUOTE ]
I was in the same situation but at little worst this weekend at the MGM playing a 2/4-limit table. There were about four to five people sitting at the table and they were all related. There were constantly speaking Arabic to each other. The dealer was constantly warning them about the English only rule. One of the ladies (non-English speaking) was constantly warn not to show her cards to a man (brother or husband) sitting behind her who was not even in the game, just sitting behind watching, which I though was kind of weird that they would allow that in itself. Then she stops playing and he took over her spot. Then two of the men started to comment on how bad everyone was playing. And soon as the hand was dead and the dealer started shuffling they would make comments in Arabic and you could tell by there eye movement and hand gestures they were making disparaging remarks towards players at the table. One of the gentlemen made an open comment in English towards me as to how I played my hand, which I won at the show down, I was a little miff at the comment and snapped back telling him to play his hand and not worry about mine. There was a little heated exchange between him and I, the Room Manager came over and give us both a warning. Played three hands more and won $60 from the clan and left. This was my first time playing in Vegas; all in all it was a great experience except for the hour or so with the family poker game. I haven’t played much in Casino but what action can you take as player in this type of situations. I felt as if the Arabic conversations were asking for advice, the men seemed to be decent players and the woman were fairly novice. What can a player request from the house under these situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call the floor over, explain the English-only rule is being broken and ask to be seated at a new table. If they give them another chance and then fail to enforce the English-only rule, take your chips, get up from the table, go over to the brush and ask to be seated at the first open table where people are following the rules. Tip the brush.

To the OP: Call the floor, immediately. Don't let the dealer push the cards in the muck; in fact, after the father folds you want to be yelling for the floor as quickly as you can.

[rt1]

the game selection is so wide with these 2/4 and 4/8 games in vegas. get up and go to another room. might as well say something to the floor, but they wont doing anything unless it is obv.

[NoRiverRats]

What Lotto Larry said - that or, rather than exchange knowing glances with someone at the table, let they two of them and the table know you think something is not right. You can do this politely and by doing so, you have put them, the dealer and the table on notice. If they know everyone is watching them they will likely smarten up.

[mrkilla]

Its total collusion just depends which one you feel more strongly about, its either A ) form of a Squeeze play or B) a soft play. Im thinking its more B as you would have seen them squeeze others earlier. There also angleing a little hear and there. Is it a big deal, yea , but go find another game. If the game was extra soft (like don't squeeze the charmin kind of soft) then yea make a ruckus

[TripleH68]

In your case I would have definitely called the floor before leaving the game.

On a further note I remember one room asking two people not to sit next to eachother in a situation like this. Do not remember the details. Any comments on this type of thing?