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  #1  
Old 12-26-2005, 11:38 AM
45suited 45suited is offline
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Default Passing up 7:1 pot odds with KQo

My thoughts here: With the raise and two callers, it's too likely that my hand is dominated. I'd hate to hit my hand and not be able to play it strongly. AND my stack is not deep enough to somehow play the hand 'for information'. But it IS deep enough to simply fold, get out of the way, and proceed with proper bubble play when the time comes. Results posted later. Thoughts?

PartyPoker, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com


UTG (t2250)
UTG+1 (t770)
MP1 (t690)
CO (t985)
Button (t865)
SB (t1365)
Hero (t1075)


Preflop: Hero is in BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="red">UTG raises t100</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, MP1 calls t100, <font color="gray">CO folds</font>, Button calls t100, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, <font color="gray">Hero folds</font>
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2005, 11:49 AM
chisness chisness is offline
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Default Re: Passing up 7:1 pot odds with KQo

You'd think the callers would be pushing if they had you dominated, but of course this might not be true. This is definitely a fine, safe way to play here since you don't need chips badly anyway. I'd say I don't mind either way.
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  #3  
Old 12-26-2005, 11:53 AM
tom441lbk tom441lbk is offline
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Default Re: Passing up 7:1 pot odds with KQo

I call this all day long. Big stack is in there, good place to look for a double up.

When I get in here at this point though, I'm looking to hit my hand pretty hard, and not just run with TPGK.

I am also more likely to get in there if the small stacks are pushing if I have TPGK, whereas I'm more caution with the bigger sized stacks.

I just don't see passing up on this, even if I know I am dominated, you are last to act preflop 50 to call in a 375 pot, with good implied odds.


Calling all day long,

lbk


edit: also it is important whether this is the first hand of 25-50, or the last? imho
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  #4  
Old 12-26-2005, 11:54 AM
Burno Burno is offline
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Default Re: Passing up 7:1 pot odds with KQo

I call here everytime, and frankly I'm surprised you'd consider folding here in a 22 or 33. I'd love to be wrong here and learn something new/plug a leak, but I call with worse hands than KQ here.

There are at least 5 terrible players at your table who are dying to give you their chips, and you're being offered a great price with good implied odds and a decent hand.

Now, I'm not itching to get my stack in everytime if I only flop one K or Q. I'm shooting for two pair or better, but I think you can still make some money with just TP2K here. If I flop top pair, I'll probably check the flop and bet the turn if checked around. I'm folding with one pair if UTG fires a legitimate bet on the flop. If MP or the button bets after UTG and I check, I probably will c/r all in if their PT numbers tell me they suck, but that depends on the flop texture and a few other things as well.
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  #5  
Old 12-26-2005, 11:59 AM
Burno Burno is offline
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Default Re: Passing up 7:1 pot odds with KQo

Hey, you said the same thing I did using 1/4 the words, which is probably why you were able to post a full minute faster than me.

It makes no difference to me if this is the first or last hand of 25/50, I'm calling regardless. One of those shortstacks desperately wants to get his money in the middle with QTs on a Q48 flop. And UTG has given us two strong clues that he is a muppet as well.
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  #6  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:14 PM
45suited 45suited is offline
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Default Re: Passing up 7:1 pot odds with KQo

[ QUOTE ]
Now, I'm not itching to get my stack in everytime if I only flop one K or Q. I'm shooting for two pair or better, but I think you can still make some money with just TP2K here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I mean, if I'm shooting for two pair, then I could call with anything. If fact, I'd rather call here with low suited connectors than with KQo.

You don't think it's siginificant that there has been a raise and two callers? First, I could easily be dominated by someone. Second, I'm playing the hand OOP. And I don't have a large enough stack to find out where I'm at w/o it really hurting my stack. So, I can't play it strong at all even if I flop TP. Which might allow even one of the callers to luck into a hand that beats me.

And it's so easy to just fold and move on. Use my skill at bubble play to my advantage and keep a healthy stack.

I honestly think that KQo, in this particular case, is one of the worst hands to have here. Again, I'd call with something like 67s before calling with this.
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:14 PM
Dr_Jeckyl_00 Dr_Jeckyl_00 is offline
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Default Re: Passing up 7:1 pot odds with KQo

I probably call pf, but I have trouble letting go post flop if K,Q hit (utg could be betting AK, AQ and I am toast). So nothing wrong with folding pf if you lack post flop skills like me :-(
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  #8  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:19 PM
45suited 45suited is offline
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Default Re: Passing up 7:1 pot odds with KQo

[ QUOTE ]
If MP or the button bets after UTG and I check, I probably will c/r all in if their PT numbers tell me they suck, but that depends on the flop texture and a few other things as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I respect your opinion, but the problem with this line is that if you C/R all-in, UTG is still to act after you. That could be very bad.

Not that it's likely UTG checks TP, but if he does, you're toast most likely. Now, say you check. Free cards all around! I hate hands that I can not play strongly but could easily cost me a large portion of my stack.
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  #9  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:19 PM
tom441lbk tom441lbk is offline
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Default Re: Passing up 7:1 pot odds with KQo

Yeah, it makes a little difference, probably more in the transition between 50-100 to 75-150.

And I used more than 1/4 the words, I might have just started sooner.

What are the 2 clues that UTG is a muppet?
I'd need a read to say that him raising min UTG is muppet, this could mean a strong hand that wants action or a reraise. I need a read before I'm commiting too many chips with him contesting the pot.


lbk
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  #10  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:24 PM
45suited 45suited is offline
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Default Re: Passing up 7:1 pot odds with KQo

[ QUOTE ]
So nothing wrong with folding pf if you lack post flop skills like me :-(

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't think it was a matter of lacking post flop skills. Rather, my stack's not deep enough to find out if I'm dominated, but there is a significant likelihood that I am. Why should I piss away future FE while playing a hand that just screams 'danger' when I don't have to?
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