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  #21  
Old 12-03-2005, 06:06 AM
ansky451 ansky451 is offline
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Default Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.

Push> Fold> (distant third) Call.


For all the reasons people have mention.
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  #22  
Old 12-03-2005, 06:36 AM
Blindcurve Blindcurve is offline
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Default Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.

I think BB's range is wider than a premium pair. He's getting 1.5 to 1 on the call with a possible overcall, that doesn't push unless HE has a premium pair. He has a big stack. The buy-in level is low (although I don't believe this automatically denotes bad play.)
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  #23  
Old 12-03-2005, 07:22 AM
stokken stokken is offline
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Default Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.

Yes, but if we push that opens the betting again. BB will have to call 10% of his stack, unless he comes over the top, and be uncertain as to what Utg will do. Without a premium hand that would be foolish?
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  #24  
Old 12-03-2005, 08:16 AM
Blindcurve Blindcurve is offline
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Default Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.

I was unclear.

I think the big stacks stymie each other in this hand. UTG can't reasonably push anything but a huge pair behind a BB call, so the BB can call safely most of the time.

It's a small point, because I think you're right- a majority of the time, Hero is HU against the UTG limper.
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  #25  
Old 12-03-2005, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.

I'm pretty sure that this is an easy push with way worse hands than this. You have decent FE, and the vast majority of the time that you get called, you're HU getting like 1.5:1.

I'm pushing 89s here, and if I've seen UTG limp/fold and I have a tight image, I push 23o here.
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  #26  
Old 12-03-2005, 09:24 AM
Masquerade Masquerade is offline
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Default Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.

I was the original person the argument was with - although the hand belonged to someone else we were sweating.

I limp because:

Although 200 out of 1180 is a significant chunk of our stack, QJ suited is a strong hand and justifies the investment.

QJ suited is a very flop-dependent hand that we will either fold or push with on the flop.

I expect a push to be called and I expect to be behind. We all know that a hand like QJs has a decent chance of cracking a big hand, but why not see a flop and get a huge insight into determining whether this is one of those occasions.

Unlike a made hand I don't mind the blinds limping in as they may provide someone to pay me off if I do hit.

I have position on everyone on the flop.

A raise from the blinds is less likely as they'd be raising the UTG limper as well. There's no specific reason to assume he has a monster but it's a possibility. If raised allin pre-flop then I fold, yes.

With all these favourable factors, and a flop-sensitive hand, I don't have a problem with investing 200 from my small 1200 stack.
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  #27  
Old 12-03-2005, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.

I see this as a situation where limping is horribly wrong. By limping you not only commit ~20% of your stack to the pot but you also stand the chance of losing fold equity against the other shorter stacks at the table, especially the CO. This means that on the next hand that you pickup your push is that much easier to call. Not only that, but now your double up costs you 200 chips this time, 400 next time, and so on and so forth. Losing 200 chips here as the short stack with the blinds/antes this high is highly undesirable.

I push here. Next hand the SB and BB are both the big stacks. They're more likely to call the next hand than this one. Players in a $5 game like to chase after their money already invested in the pot. I prefer heros chances with this hand over a hand like 74o. Hero's cards are most likely live and he has a rather good suited connector here. SB isn't likely to call here. That only leaves the BB and UTG and I don't think that UTG has a very strong hand. I push and I don't think it's close.
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