Call down mode, too weak?

meow_meow · #1 08-17-2005, 09:18 PM

My read on villain here is that he will raise flops with weak hands and draws, wait for the turn with a real hand. Given that, I'm not too happy with my play here, it seems so weak, yet I find myself falling into call down mode so often when I'm raised on the flop.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.20 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.20 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.20 BB

Thoughts?

cdxx · #2 08-17-2005, 10:52 PM

ugh, i hate these hands. i think turn is a fold

#3 08-17-2005, 11:08 PM

Do you know what he could be coldcalling you with here? If he's raising the flop with a straight draw he has now paired up on the turn, if he's raising this flop with any pair then you're wrong to call his turn bet, and if he's raising you with overcards then you might be drawing to 3 outs (unlikely assuming the preflop action but you can't exclude it as a possibility). I'm not talking about playing scared poker, but I think this is definetly a turn fold.

wackjob · #4 08-17-2005, 11:09 PM

Put a raise in here somewhere or fold.

goofball · #5 08-17-2005, 11:38 PM

OOP I would just checkfold the turn.

zimmer879 · #6 08-17-2005, 11:57 PM

I probably play this the same given your read. On the turn you very likely have 5 clean outs when behind, with tne Td being a little shaky, plus you're ahead of diamond draws and bluffs. I'm folding to a river diamond though.

Sakuraba · #7 08-18-2005, 12:15 AM

What range of hands do you think he will cold call your preflop raise with? I think that is pretty important here.

By "raise flops with weak hands", do you mean nothing (a total bluff) or weak made hands like bottom pair or A high?

Transference · #8 08-18-2005, 12:24 AM

I'm thinking more and more that this is a very reasonable line against this villian.

I'm assuming A10 does very well against his range here, most of the time you ahead on this flop.

You could raise this flop for value. Then youll find yourself betting the turn of course. If he often c/rs you with fresh draw, an old one, or an ugly card your going to have a hard time calling with A high.

If he is consisntently this aggressive calling down with the best hand might be a favorable line. Let him fire away and force him to slowly adjust after hes thrown chips at your for a while.

wackjob · #9 08-18-2005, 12:29 AM

I think you are looking at a little PP all too often. You either need to make a move on the pot(IE C/R the turn) or just give up. I doubt you are going to showdown your A-hi and win.

Sakuraba · #10 08-18-2005, 12:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you know what he could be coldcalling you with here? If he's raising the flop with a straight draw he has now paired up on the turn, if he's raising this flop with any pair then you're wrong to call his turn bet, and if he's raising you with overcards then you might be drawing to 3 outs (unlikely assuming the preflop action but you can't exclude it as a possibility). I'm not talking about playing scared poker, but I think this is definetly a turn fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your general thought process, but on the other hand, if the villian has overcards, the villian might be drawing to 3 or 6 outs. Also, he could have a flush draw, which did not get there. (The flush draw is slightly less likely because we have the ace of diamonds and people love to coldcall raises with suited aces.)

I think this really boils down to the range of hands that the villian will coldcall with and how often the villian will raise this flop on a draw or bluff. (particularly on how often he will bluff) How often he raises the flop with an 8 also factors in and the hero thinks that is unlikely.

Against some players, I think this is an easy and profitable calldown.