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  #1  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:29 AM
daryn daryn is offline
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Default multiple forks in the road

this hand was weird.. anyone 3 bet preflop? how about flop action.. checkraise or peel for cheap since you're out of position.. turn card? what now?!

assume no reads other than these guys aren't the greatest limit texas hold'em players you've seen around


PokerStars 30/60 Hold'em (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero ...?
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  #2  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:48 AM
etizzle etizzle is offline
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Default Re: multiple forks in the road

i like a flop c/r. Yeah we dont have huge equity against a million hands, but the fact that BB was the one that bet, and UTG didnt raise, makes me think 99 is surely in the lead. Its gonna be tough to protect your hand in this one but at least you got an oppurtunity to charge everyone another bet with the likely best hand.

On the turn I'd probably bet it out and fold to a raise from UTG or UTG+1, and call down a raise from BB.
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  #3  
Old 12-25-2005, 04:04 AM
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Default Re: multiple forks in the road

PREFLOP: I would fold, I know your in the SB so you have a little discount but 99 does not play well OOP against the usual range of an UTG raiser. Another factor that should make you lean towards a fold is that you also have no information on your opponents, which increases the probability that you will make mistakes postflop. If there were 3 people committed to the pot outside the blinds, I would call here since Im getting the odds to flop a set, with just 2 people committed I would fold.

FLOP: Given your relative position to the raiser, checking and going for a checkraise or betting out are both fine plays IMO. Once you checked and the BB bets and everyone else calls, calling now looks right. Checkraising in this spot and building the pot would not be sound poker IMO since the equity of your holding is going to change dramatically with the turn card.

TURN: This is a bad card for obvious reasons. I would check and see what happens. If the BB bets, and everyone folds, I would call down since there is still a great chance you have the BB beat. If the BB bets and both other players call, its time to leave and fold the turn. IF the BB bets and UTG folds, and UTG+1 calls, this is a much tougher spot since you would assume the UTG+1 would raise if he hit the king, and the BB's hand is most likely tied to the flop, but folding still wouldnt be a bad play here, since you are probably in a way behind/barely ahead situation, meaning the times youre ahead you will still get rivered quite often and the times you are behind you are drawing to 2 outs.

This best advice I can give you on the turn is to check it, and see what develops and use your judgement to decide if you should continue in the hand.
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  #4  
Old 12-25-2005, 04:09 AM
daryn daryn is offline
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Default Re: multiple forks in the road

i didn't read past the fourth word of your post.. oh, i will.. i just wanted to ask this first

are you serious? you'd fold?

ok, back to reading your post

------

ok i read it. my thoughts were the same as yours on the flop and turn.. on flop i knew the turn card could change things dramatically so i figured let me see it for 1 bet. on the turn part of me felt like i should check to see what happened
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  #5  
Old 12-25-2005, 04:13 AM
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Default Re: multiple forks in the road

[ QUOTE ]
i didn't read past the fourth word of your post.. oh, i will.. i just wanted to ask this first

are you serious? you'd fold?

ok, back to reading your post

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, I figured you'd say that. They dont call me WeakTightWes for no reason, just telling you what I would do and why.
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  #6  
Old 12-25-2005, 05:54 AM
calmasahinducow calmasahinducow is offline
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Default Re: multiple forks in the road

Bet that flop to see where you are in the hand. That turn card is bad news I think.
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  #7  
Old 12-25-2005, 08:14 AM
mc1023 mc1023 is offline
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Default Re: multiple forks in the road

I would not 3bet this hand preflop against a UTG raiser and an UTG+1 coldcaller, since there are a lot of flops that will slow you down.

also there is really no point CRíng this hand on the flop since it won't get a fold out of either of them.

call and re-evaluate on the turn, and in this particular case I would check the turn and fold to two bets but call if it's only one BB back to me.
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  #8  
Old 12-25-2005, 11:39 AM
Net Warrior Net Warrior is offline
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Default Re: multiple forks in the road

[ QUOTE ]
PREFLOP: I would fold, I know your in the SB so you have a little discount but 99 does not play well OOP against the usual range of an UTG raiser. Another factor that should make you lean towards a fold is that you also have no information on your opponents, which increases the probability that you will make mistakes postflop. If there were 3 people committed to the pot outside the blinds, I would call here since Im getting the odds to flop a set, with just 2 people committed I would fold.

FLOP: Given your relative position to the raiser, checking and going for a checkraise or betting out are both fine plays IMO. Once you checked and the BB bets and everyone else calls, calling now looks right. Checkraising in this spot and building the pot would not be sound poker IMO since the equity of your holding is going to change dramatically with the turn card.



[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the math dictates a fold pre-flop. I was just wondering if on the flop it wouldn't be a good idea to bet out. This sandwiches the BB between you the the pre-flop raiser. The idea is to try to get it HU where you're the favorite vs AKo etc.
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  #9  
Old 12-25-2005, 01:10 PM
DcifrThs DcifrThs is offline
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Default Re: multiple forks in the road

this is how i would play the hand. i could be wrong but here it is.

Preflop: call. every time.

flop: since we have no real read, id just assume UTG is your typical player who is more likely to have a hand like AK/AQ/AJs/KQs etc, than AA/KK/QQ/JJ/TT, and that he's about as equally likely to raise or fold those first hands than call with them (so given his raise, its about even money that he has no pair than a pair that beats you). by betting and him having no pair that he raises, you clear the field to get it HU.

turn: given i bet the flop and he raised and others folded and its HU on the turn and the K hit, id check fold the turn.

Barron
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  #10  
Old 12-25-2005, 01:41 PM
James282 James282 is offline
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Default Re: multiple forks in the road

Surprised you'd call every time here Barron - I think a 3 bet is usually best. There are way too many hands the BB can have that really hurt your equity by letting him crawl in. Plus, by overrepresenting your hand, you usually force the UTG player to define his hand on the flop or the turn. If he does so by raising, you can almost always lay it down safely. If he caps, you can almost always find out whether you are ahead or behind on the flop.
-James
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