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Old 06-16-2005, 03:44 PM
108suited 108suited is offline
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Default marginal hand how much to bet on river?

The game is Party Poker's 10/20NL. I open in the cutoff with Qd Jc for 60. The button calls and the bb calls.
Me 3.5 k - Good lag but I've been playing "slow" or more solid the last hour.
Button 2k - Solid
BB - 1k Unknown

Flop is Qh, 5s, 8c. It's checked to me and I bet 150. The button calls and the BB folds. Turn 3h. I check and the button checks behind. River 6d.

1. How much (or what range) do you guys like to bet here with this "marginal" hand on the river?
2. How does this change, (if any), in this example if the hand were KK or AQ? What about QQ for top set?
3. Anybody like a turn bet? The turn play check seems standard. Other lines on this "simple", but often encountered, type, marginal hand?



Thanks for your help
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  #2  
Old 06-16-2005, 03:48 PM
autobet autobet is offline
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Default Re: marginal hand how much to bet on river?

I would bet around 200-250 with your hand or KK.

I would usually bet 200-250 on the turn, but that's just me. Your play of checking may be better. Probably the most important thing is to mix it up.
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Old 06-16-2005, 04:01 PM
Big_Jim Big_Jim is offline
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Default Re: marginal hand how much to bet on river?

You say button is solid, so what hands is he calling with PF?

I'd say his range is probably along the lines of PP 22-JJ, maybe QQ, he would re-raise AA, KK.
AKo AQ, maybe KQ.
And suited connectors

He cold calls your bet on the flop, so what could he be calling with? The only draw is 67s for the straight. Other than that, a cold call worries me. I don't know what he would call with that you beat, other than the draw, and I don't know that a solid player calls this with the draw. If he views you as LAG, then he might be calling with a PP < Q.

Do you usually fire out a continuation bet after you raise PF? What about with 3 people to the flop? What does the slight overbet usually mean, from you?

After he cold calls the flop, I like the turn check.

On the river, I would probably value bet about 2/3 of the pot (300), and fold to a raise. I like a value bet, but only if both of the following are true: a)we don't view button as capable of making a big bluff on the river b) We are very sure that button views hero as very LAG. By showing weakness on the turn, you make it possible for him to call with any PP that he called with on the flop.

If these assumptions are not met, I would check call a decent river bet. (Up to about 300)
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Old 06-16-2005, 04:03 PM
108suited 108suited is offline
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Default Re: marginal hand how much to bet on river?

"I would bet around 200-250 with your hand or KK.

I would usually bet 200-250 on the turn, but that's just me. Your play of checking may be better. Probably the most important thing is to mix it up."

Thanks autobet. I changed the post slightly to add in the option of how one might play QQ also (top set on the flop). I'd be interested in seeing your response if you are interested - mainly in seeing the difference in how you might play the QQ hand compared to the AQ, KK, and QJ hands, if any.
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Old 06-16-2005, 04:19 PM
108suited 108suited is offline
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Default Re: marginal hand how much to bet on river?

"Do you usually fire out a continuation bet after you raise PF?"
Yes I almost always bet the flop if I raise preflop when heads up after the flop. I vary it from 1/2 the pot to the full pot most of the time.

"What about with 3 people to the flop?"
I fire a coninuation bet 3 handed a lot less often if I miss completely. Probably about 1/3 of the time. This is the type of flop I'm likely to bluff with, or if an ace or king hit.

"What does the slight overbet usually mean, from you?"

Normally, it means that I want to increase my fold equity or that I have a good hand. If I miss completely, I don't want to bet small on the flop, because if I get called I am normally following up with a turn bluff depending on what I feel my opponent might have. I'd prefer to find out where I am on the flop most of the time. A big flop bet from me could easily be a weak hand and not a strong hand. It could also be the nuts.

Thanks for the feedback it was very helpful.
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