Importance of early level play in an SNG

minwoo · #1 08-30-2005, 06:13 PM

I 4-table the 55s and have been doing so for about 6 months now. I can confidently say that early play just isn't that important at the 55s and below. But recalling a post made by Gigabet a while ago(can't remember which one), starting from a xxx buy-in level, early/actual playing become essential. Push-botting later in the game (as Raptor calls it) just doesn't reap a desireable ROI at these higher buy-ins. I'm just wondering at which buy-in level this is so. Comments?

minwoo · #2 08-30-2005, 11:14 PM

"a SNG" not "an SNG" ...i passed AP english too

whatever.bump

pergesu · #3 08-30-2005, 11:34 PM

Interesting that I just made a kind of similar response in another thread.

I think it's a mistake to think that early play isn't important. Perhaps it's not important in achieving a satisfactory ROI...but there's a lot of EV to be gained, because I think most of your opponents play worse throughout the tourney than they do on the bubble. It's just a lot tougher to figure out how to exploit...but when you do, I bet your ROI would improve massively.

Sure wish I had a clue how to do that.

bruin · #4 08-30-2005, 11:44 PM

I agree, early play is not important at the lower buy-in SNGS, at least from what I've experienced. In the past, if I have to take a crap/shower I'll put my player on away, lose a few blinds and be ready to get active when the blinds get big. My win rate has not been significantly changed in the SNGs where I do this, although I'll admit there's not enough mathematical evidence for that to be proven.

Michael C. · #5 08-30-2005, 11:51 PM

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think early play can be underrated. Because don't the worst players tend to bust early? And if you don't get the money, another player will. I guess if you are at a level where you are such an overwhelming favorite that you don't need to gamble, you can wait for the later levels. But I probably bust out 9th, 10th more than most here, but also double up more early too. And I think overall that's helped my results. Of course I also play just the 109s and 215s and don't know what it's like in the lower SNGs.

#6 08-30-2005, 11:52 PM

Can i ask if by 4 table you mean 4 tourneys at one time, at the 55 dollar level?
If this is so, how is your ROI doing this (I am seriously going to assume you simply play solid for all 4 tables) and what kind of bankroll are we talking here (thousands, tens of thousands)?
Was just wondering because I was considering playing 2 tables at the 25 dollar level simply because i cash so much there...
As to your question, I believe that early game strategy is lacking in most players...they simply are either too loose or too tight. I tend to sit back and watch but also try to gamble in profitable spots (or potentially profitable anyway). Also, a good look at the beginning of the game of all the players tends to let you know how to play them near the end...

citanul · #7 08-30-2005, 11:54 PM

if by "it's not that important" you mean you can in fact turn a profit without doing it well, you are right. you can not come close to turning maximum profit though, without playing the early levels well.

citanul

#8 08-30-2005, 11:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting that I just made a kind of similar response in another thread.

I think it's a mistake to think that early play isn't important. Perhaps it's not important in achieving a satisfactory ROI...but there's a lot of EV to be gained, because I think most of your opponents play worse throughout the tourney than they do on the bubble. It's just a lot tougher to figure out how to exploit...but when you do, I bet your ROI would improve massively.

Sure wish I had a clue how to do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

EV translates directly into ROI. The basic question is "is there EV to be gained/lost" or "does it have an effect on your ROI". They're the same thing.

pergesu · #9 08-31-2005, 12:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
EV translates directly into ROI. The basic question is "is there EV to be gained/lost" or "does it have an effect on your ROI". They're the same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't ask that though. He asked if it's "important." As citanul pointed out, it's not if you just want to turn a profit. I'm saying you should be able to exploit EV edges earlier on, which of course then means your ROI is higher.

Freudian · #10 08-31-2005, 12:10 AM

Problem is that it is much harder to learn to do well, while the pushing is pretty easy to get the hang of. That in itself explains why this board is mainly focused around late plays because there are less "it depends" there.

But I think if you play the early levels really well the later levels become easier to play also (perhaps allowing you to pass on some marginal plays in level 4-5 etc).