Is o8 a limpers game?

[Ribbo]

I would suggest if you're worried about "the fluctuations" then you really shouldn't be playing that limit in the first place. You clearly have some bankroll issues.

[Buzz]

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Buzz, the tone of your posts are very disparaging.

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Pipes - That was not my intention. Not at all. I'm honestly sorry that you have misinterpreted and evidently misunderstood what I wrote.

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You say that players who disagree with you on preflop raising only 'think' they know how to play the game well. Or that most solid players agree with you.

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I wrote neither of those. The section where I wrote something about players who "think" they know the game well reads (without the italics):

"Sometimes I play in games where pre-flop raising is the norm - where there's almost always a pre-flop raise. Often the raising in these pre-flop-aggressive games is mostly done by a very few players who may think they know how to play the game of Omaha-8 well, but who don't really understand how to play Omaha-8 well at all - and when that's the case, I don't think it's in the best interests of a seasoned player to get out of the game just because fluctuations increase."

That is what I wrote and that is what I meant. No more. No less. How you can deny that what I wrote is true?

How can you extend it to imply I think players who disagree with me on preflop raising only 'think' they know how to play the game well. That's not what I wrote!

I don't know if most solid players agree with me or not. I neither wrote, nor implied that they do.

I do sometimes raise before the flop. I would say that most solid players do raise before the flop. But not all the time.

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Several posters on here that play this game for a living advocate preflop raising.

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Whereever did you get the notion I don't raise on the first betting round? Wherever did you get the notion I don't advocate raising on the first betting round? Seems as though I've written over and over that <font color="red">my decision to raise or not before the flop is based more on the effect I think it will have on my opponents than the exact cards in my starting hand.</font>

There it is in bold red! I don't see how I can make it clearer for you!

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At the very least you should be more respectful of those who disagree.

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Disagree, if you like, but please get what I write straight before you respond.

I guess I may have written something previously that offended you, Pipes, and you're not letting up in your criticism. It's never my intention to offend anyone. I actually get along very well with people, and always have.

But if I did write something in the past that offended you, I apologize.

In truth, I appreciate opposing points of view. Although I have confidence in my competence and understanding about Omaha-8 there is much I do not know about the game and how people play it.

My response to Pokerswami was one of disagreement. I suppose you could say that, in a way, disagreement is disrespect. But I wouldn't write, in this case, that I "disrespect" Pokerswami's point of view. Instead, I simply think Pokerswami is wrong in this instance.

The difference in my mind is that disagreement is more for a point of view while disrespect is more for an individual. Well... I suppose disrespect could also be for a point of view - but in my humble opinion it doesn't apply well in this instance.

Buzz

[stud7champ]

Geez one joker starts a webpage and then we are referencing to it??

The 3rd reason for raising is to vary your play

The 4th reason is favourable position if you have A2 3 or 4 or 5 and you are in late position consider raising to build the pot.

The 5th reason is konw your opponents, if you have some opponents after you, raise a good hand to build the pot, create doubt, throw your opponents off and try to folp a favourable hand.

Its a fallacy that per flop raises are not that good. Hands such as A2X , AA2X etc.. have excellent prospects particularly if suited. On many count systems AA is already 2/3 of the points reuired to call, AA flsuh is enough to call and AA2 x flush is enough to raise from middle position.

[stud7champ]

I agreee the guy writes crap, plaease read and apply what he teaches you. You will then be a fish and are welcome to apply your new skill at my table!!!
By the way he lists a bunch of "Fish" on his site. A couple of them are in fact sharks. Micaro on Party Poker is rumoured to be Mike Caro.
Goes to show you what free advice is worth exactly that nothing!

[pokerswami]

Buzz, thanks for your response. I appreciate your comments and the effort you put forth to increase the knowledge base on these forums. I disagree with any thoughts expressed that you were being disrespectful.

I could have given a more thorough treatment in my post that you commented on, but that is about my limit of tolerance for typing and composition.

Please recall that I was expressing my view on the original poster's question as to why there is so little pre-flop raising in many limit Omaha 8/B games.

I was not giving my advice on the best strategies to use in limit O8.
As an example, note this qualifier in one sentence:
"If you want to play on an undersized bankroll and if you want to limit your fluctuations, then ...

I generally agree with your observations about how to properly play limit O8. In fact I probably agree with over 90% of all your O8/B posts, and added "generally" because I'm just not interested in trying to go through your post here word by word to look for something to disagree with. I also generally agree with Felicia Lee's comments and observations in this thread.

I just wanted to respond that I wasn't giving lessons on the most optimal limit O8 strategies. I was trying to answer the original poster's question by explaining why I believe many Omaha 8/B games have little pre-flop raising.

Regards, pokerswami

[umdpoker]

great thread. i just started playing omaha8 2 days ago, and am already hooked. my main concern, coming from a holdem background, was that i didn't understand when to raise, or 3-bet preflop. for the most part, i am only raising in lp after a bunch of limpers with good 2 way hands. it is nice to hear that it probably isn't too important, as long as i play well postflop and stay tight preflop.

i have noticed that calling 2 cold is much more common in omaha8 than holdem. actually, it seems that calling 2 cold is very common on all streets in omaha. in holdem, calling 2 cold a lot will lead to your downfall. i have a feeling that this may not be as true in omaha? am i correct? what hands should i be willing to call 2 cold with preflop? i really feel that i am smart enough to feel my way through postflop play, but preflop seems more complicated. also, if anybody can recommend some good players' posts to read, i would greatly appreciate it. thanks.

[stud7champ]

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FWIW My understanding of why it is not a good strategy to raise pre-flop in a high-low game like omaha is that hands run much closer in value than in hold'em. You simply never have as significant an advantage as AA does in hold'em. The flop changes everything by making the best starting hands into utter crap when the board comes high with a rainbow. Your hands value greatly depends on the flop, much more so than in hold'em. In hold'em an unimporved AA wins in Omaha an unimproved AA23ss typically does not.

k_squared


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Geez why dont you read any O8 book, where are you getting your info from?
AA23 can win high unimproved, if you get a bad flop such as 2 or 3 high cards (&gt;8) assuming you are not drawing to the flush and are facing a straight draw or 2 pair then whats the difference to that than facing a 2 card flush/straight draw on the flop in HE and multiple opponents. Against multiple opponents in HE AA is way over rated.
Just goes to show not only are you ignorent of Omaha you cant play HE either

[Ribbo]

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great thread. i just started playing omaha8 2 days ago, and am already hooked. my main concern, coming from a holdem background, was that i didn't understand when to raise, or 3-bet preflop. for the most part, i am only raising in lp after a bunch of limpers with good 2 way hands. it is nice to hear that it probably isn't too important, as long as i play well postflop and stay tight preflop.

i have noticed that calling 2 cold is much more common in omaha8 than holdem. actually, it seems that calling 2 cold is very common on all streets in omaha. in holdem, calling 2 cold a lot will lead to your downfall. i have a feeling that this may not be as true in omaha? am i correct? what hands should i be willing to call 2 cold with preflop? i really feel that i am smart enough to feel my way through postflop play, but preflop seems more complicated. also, if anybody can recommend some good players' posts to read, i would greatly appreciate it. thanks.

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That will take a long time to grasp. Learning Omaha is not a sprint race, but a marathon. Nobody ever knows exactly when to raise for one factor only. They never know who is going high and who is going low. I think of the times I have had A2 in a 4 way pot and all the other 3 players are going high with me on low.

[pipes]

Buzz, I apologize. I didn't read your post carefully enough.