Purpose of props

[SoBeDude]

I think I understand the purpose of props. Its to start games and keep them "propped" up until enough regulars come to fill in the seats.

Sounds like good business to me.

My question is once the table is full and there is a waiting line for the table, are the props told to leave to allow the rest of us to sit and play?

Just curious if in all those full tables I play at are populated by the props or normal schmucks like me.

-Scott

[mdlm]

are the props told to leave to allow the rest of us to sit and play?

Since no one else answered, I'll share my limited knowledge with you: Prop policy varies from site to site. There is at least one site in which props can sit and play wherever they want: heads-up, short-handed, full, etc. And there is at least one site where they are moved when the table gets full.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Scott:

I commented on this in a different thread. But here's some more. In B&M cardrooms that use props, most of them require the prop to leave a game once it becomes full or if there is a greater need for the prop someplace else.

Some rooms use what are known as silent props. These are people who agree to play a certain game during certain hours. They act like regular customers and are not identified as house employees.

Below are some comments of mine about props from Poker Essays, Volume II.

B. Props. Proposition players are people who play with their own money but are paid by the house to start games and keep them going. Props are hired when the core of regular players is not large enough to ensure that games will be available for drop-ins. If a cardroom deems it necessary to hire people for this job, it should strive to hire those with pleasant personalities.

Additionally, props tend to play in a tight and conservative style that promotes “no-action games,” which are extremely unpopular with most poker players. A majority of gamblers like action games.

If the cardroom is successful, it probably won’t require the use of props. The need for props is often directly related to the size of the rake or time charge, even though it might not appear so at first. When a cardroom decides to charge high fees, it runs the risk of bankrupting many of its marginal players who are the core of any successful operation. When this occurs, the cardroom may need to hire props, whose salaries can be quite substantial. Thus, even though a high rake may be good for the cardroom in the short run, it may be detrimental in the long run.

In other words, having props results in a “vicious circle.” They negate the higher rake and don’t promote action. Props do not equate to good games.

[CreamPuff]

Its to start games and keep them "propped" up

I suppose you can think of it in this way if you like.

However, to be specific, as far as I know, "prop" is an abbrev. for propisitional player.

My question is once the table is full and there is a waiting line for the table, are the props told to leave to allow the rest of us to sit and play?

For the most part, most casino's online or live, require
props to leave a table when there is a waiting list.
Often more leniency is given as you go higher up in
limits, especially in B&M cardrooms. (It's just a lot
to ask for a prop being paid $25 an hr to leave a $20-$40
when they're down $1000 because someone wants in a game).

The above is the general rule of thumb. So if you are in
an 8-10 game online, the majority of players will
be normal ole' schmucks. The rest will be schmucks that
are getting paid.

Also it is a common fallacy to think:

#1: That props are supposed to play in a fashion that benefits the live players. Such as being passive.
This is totally false..A prop plays his/her card and
money ANY way they like. I've never heard of a prop
being fired for raising too much.

#2: Props are professional players:
Most low-limit props are losing players....Many do
not even make enough to cover their losses and often
end up broke.At least in California.

And the internet props are break-even caliber players for the most part from what I've seen (There are
exceptions).

It is a very high-turnover job...Casino's are always
happy to find steady props, usually which happen to be better than avg. players.

#3: Props play with house money: False

[Mike Haven]

i was playing at a uk bookie's poker site when i received what seemed to be a standard message from management asking if i would start a new table for them, and, if i would, they wouild pay me some amount per hour

so i gave it a go

after half an hour an almost full table had developed and i received another message that thanked me for my time, said they would give me a proportional fee, but that they didn't need my services any longer on that table - they said that i could play on if i wanted to but that they would not pay me if i did

this seemed to be an unusual (and, to me, irritating) way to employ a prop, but, presumably, a more profitable way for the site

as far as i could see there was no declaration on the site that they employ props, but i now assume that short tables have one "temporary prop" on them

[CreamPuff]

If the cardroom is successful, it probably won’t require the use of props.

I disagree somewhat.

As you know most successful cardrooms in California
have props. Not to say that this disproves your point.

First of all, there is always an semi-unpopular game
waiting to be spread...Maybe the casino has five 9-18
holdem games, five 15-30's, but 3 live players have their
names on a 4-8 stud hi/lo list, that's having trouble
getting started.

Also there are certain times, like late at night, or
early morning when even successful rooms need props
to hold/start games.

Even in a break-even situation (part of the cycle)
the casino wins because a player is happier to be in
a game when they walk in the door (even w/ props) then
to go next door and wait 2 hrs for a game to start.

props tend to play in a tight and conservative style that promotes “no-action games,”

This may be semi-true for a 9-18 prop of higher.
But I think this statement is wrong in low
limit California games....I'd say at least 80% of low
limit props are -EV players, most of whom don't even
try to play tight for more than the first 10 minutes
of their shift.

To my knowledge props aren't really used in LV..Probably
because of the low rake structure they are locked into.
(Online sites basically have the same structure, but
deal out more hands, making it worth a props time)

I agree with you in part because I often see props
working peak hours at these successful cardrooms.
More often than not, they sit around and do nothing.
Also if there isn't much competion around, the usefuleness
of props is diminished. Certainly if they all monopolized
and got rid of them, the casino's wouldn't lose much
profit if any, but then the players just would be sitting
around doing nothing more too. Maybe it's not good
to take the crack pipe from the addict too long? *

*To paraphrase from Tommy Angelo

[SoBeDude]

Thanks to all that answered my question.

I do have one followup though.

Some rooms use what are known as silent props. These are people who agree to play a certain game during certain hours. They act like regular customers and are not identified as house employees.

The use of these "Silent Props" confuses me. It seems it is not in the casino's best interest to have them sit any longer than is necessary to kick-start a given game. After that point the house is losing money - the rake rate is constant, but now there is an additional drain on the rake box in the form of the wage for the prop.

Is the house very picky about the "certain hours" they ask a prop to play? Thus are they strategically positioning the props during their known "lull" times to keep the few walk-ups playing?

I find this whole concept fascinating, but a double-edged sword for the casinos if not carefully managed.

Thanks again!

-Scott