Facing reality

[ChipWrecked]

Hi Al,

You didn't bore me with this passage. You made a sale!
[img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
Thanks,
Chip

[D. Andrew]

My level of competitiveness is comparable to yours. It certainly hinders my game as it does not allow me to see the forest through the trees. I want to win every hand, every session, every week. It's not about the money as much it is about the need to win. As such you only have 2 options.

1. Quit playing. Your personality is not well suited to gambling. No matter how proficient you become you will never win all your sessions. Other players will put beats on you for the rest of your playing days. Players below your ability will take home sizable wins while you lose your buy in. You have very little control over your results for the session.

2. Learn more about gambling in general. Learn what an edge is and what variance means. Go to the race track and watch how even money favorites in a 9 horse race lose, and how a 2k trifecta came in. Bet basketball where you got a great number (say -7 when the consenses number is -9) and you lose. Watch a guy place $5 on 00 in roulette and it comes in. Buy Turbo Texas Holdem and place the same player in all seats and let them play a couple hundred hands (or more). Do the same with other lineups (ie. take the best player vs 9 of the same worst player). Once you understand the nature of gambling it becomes easier to deal with.

People want to tell you that since you lost you must have played poorly. They want to believe that if the keep studying they will become so good that loosing sessions and streaks will never occur. You are playing in a game where the hourly standard deviation is appx 9x the hourly earn. Streaks and beats are natural in this type of environment. Once you understand this is becomes easier to deal with. It may still bother you on the inside, but it won't affect your play on the next hand because you understand why.

[Dentist]

The underlying problem here is that you can't handle that there's a significant luck quotient in this game.

I was having the same trouble myself.

In the other sports you speak of, if you are the better player you win, if you are not you lose. Some days you might not play your best, but in general the best win.

The Yankees don't gamble, they get the best players, they play better, they win.
Tiger Woods doesn't gamble, he's better, he wins
The Williams sisters don't gamble, they're better, they win.

But in poker things are different.

If you played 10 hands against Johnny Chan and you were lucky enough to get pocket aces 5 of those times, my guess is that you'd kick the crap out of him....

But do you stand a chance in the batters box against Roger Clemens or Randy Johnson??? Hell, no.

What makes poker suck is what makes it great.
You don't want the luck because if you're better than someone you want to beat them 9 out of 10 times, which just isn't going to happen.

But on the other hand, if it weren't for the luck, the lesser players wouldn't play and it would become an activity no different than chess, checkers, tennis.

Learn to accept the luck quotient.

[mdlm]

David,

Some stock traders have the same problem. The probability that they will make money on any particular trade is about 50% (about the same probability that you will win a pot at the showdown). So if they look at individual trades they get depressed.

What some of them do is to look at their performance infrequently, sometimes as little as once a quarter.

Try this: When playing online cover up your bankroll with a 3M stickie. When you buy in have someone else buy in for you so you don't see how much money you have made in previous sessions. Do this for, say, ten sessions at your lowest limit and then see how much money you made and lost and see how you feel while you were playing.

Another suggestion is to repeat to yourself that the primary goal is not to make or lose money but to play perfect poker. If you play perfect poker, you should be happy. If you don't play perfect poker, you should be unhappy. Whether you make or lose money is irrelevant.

My favorite suggestion is to imagine that your poker coach (or a player that you highly respect) is sitting next to you. Your poker coach doesn't care whether you make or lose money, he only cares whether you play perfect poker. Before you make a play take an extra second or two and explain why you are going to make your play to your poker coach. This will prevent you from making bad plays or tilt plays because your competitive nature will prevent you from saying something embarrassing or stupid to your coach.

Another related suggestion, which I stole from Vorhaus' Killer Poker book, is to have a beta tester. The beta tester watches you play and then critiques your performance. Again your competitive nature will mean that you will be too embarrassed to do something that will make you look dumb or silly so that will eliminate bad plays. With hand histories the beta tester does not need to be watching you in real time, you can simply email the hand histories to your beta tester buddy and get advice. The beta tester can even grade you and since you are competitive you will want to get an A.

[bernie]

sounds like theres a concept youre not accepting...

you know you want players to call, and to catch (at times) but you hate when they do.

you may be looking at the game too much as a present hand only basis....you know the longterm, but want it now.

ever wonder 'why' your this way when the players are live in front of you? does this happen in other games with players in front of you? is it something youre trying to prove to these players?

id look into why your overcompetetiveness takes over logical and reasonable play. once you know the root of it, it's much easier to deal with...

sounds deep, but then again, poker is alot deeper than many give credit...

btw...badbeat skins are very tough to thicken up for some....it can be a major hurdle....ive seen many never really get over it...

one plus you have is you mention what happens (tilt)....identifying where that starts is a huge plus. if you feel yourself getting overaggressive, take a walk or quit for the session....the signs are there, it's a matter of changing your action when they appear again...

just some stuff to think about...

good luck...

b

[David Ottosen]

Actually I have a very strong friend who plays in the same game with me quite frequently and also we both review each other's hand transcripts daily from Paradise. I think he's just come to accept that he can't get inside this mindset (which is probably why he's such a strong player).

I think I'll try the cover the BR on paradise however. Might be interesting.

[PokerBabe(aka)]

mdlm, you wrote: " Another suggestion is to repeat to yourself that the primary goal is not to make or lose money but to play perfect poker. If you play perfect poker, you should be happy. If you don't play perfect poker, you should be unhappy. Whether you make or lose money is irrelevant." [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] YIKES, do we have the same coach? [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] No, we can't have the same coach, because mine says: "quality decisions", not "perfect poker". [img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img] LGPG, Babe [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

[mdlm]

Babe,

I learned the phrase "Perfect Poker" from Warren Whitmore, a 2+2 poster.

BTW, can you give us a quick bio of yourself? When you started playing poker, how you learned, where you got your fashion sense, how often do you play, etc. Who is your poker coach?

[Ray Zee]

alot boils down to how long the long run is for you. if its each hand you are doomed. if its a month or two no problem. you cant go on tilt if its month long.
you used table tennis as a game. would you tilt or play differently after every shot that you didnt put where you wanted it or each point you lost. kinda like each hand of cards. or do you get mad at the end of the game. if you wait till the end of the game you have at least played well or to your ability during the competition. good luck dave and dont give up yet.

[PokerBabe(aka)]

mdlm...A true Babe never divulges ALL her secrets..... ; Here are a few hints: My poker pals are some of the best players in the country, and my coach is a top local 30-60 pro. I typically play poker 5 days a week, and I have not been playing as long as Ray Zee. I lived in NYC for 11 years and dated a fashion designer and a rather well known art collector. My interests include the stock market and golf. LGPG, Babe [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]