Odd hand with KK, how did I do?

#1 08-27-2005, 01:39 AM

Overall my aggression is too low, I've had a tendency to not raise or reraise when I should, I'm trying to correct that. Tell me if this was a situation where I should have raised.

The only read I had on SB was his pokertracker stats, after 40 hands, VPIP of 65%, postflop aggression of .5. Note that this was a full ring table which a few people had just left from, not a 6 player table.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

NateDog · #2 08-27-2005, 02:57 AM

SB's line is looney tunes. You have to c/r all three streets for a trifecta.

I'd probably check the river thru, just to see what was worth the c/r on the turn. I can't imagine you are good enough times to call that river c/r, but I can't figure out what he's doing over there.

istewart · #3 08-27-2005, 03:03 AM

I wish you hadn't shown that SB had check/raised you on the river. Preflop, flop, and turn seem fine (If SB bet the whole way I would probably call the whole way without a significant read). River bet: I don't know. Problem being that the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] now all beat you. I think I would end up betting as a default but I hate calling a checkraise here, and I would like to show it down.

#4 08-27-2005, 03:51 AM

Would raising the flop, checking through the turn, and calling a bet be a bad line (better)?

@bsolute_luck · #5 08-27-2005, 06:11 AM

really don't like the turn bet. if you think your hand was good on the flop you should have reraised.

i too wish you hadn't shown the river because now i'm pretty sure he has the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (unless he's a retard), because it would have been hard for me to simply call if he bet into me or fold to a 3-bet having the 2nd nut flush.

#6 08-27-2005, 06:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
really don't like the turn bet. if you think your hand was good on the flop you should have reraised.

i too wish you hadn't shown the river because now i'm pretty sure he has the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (unless he's a retard), because it would have been hard for me to simply call if he bet into me or fold to a 3-bet having the 2nd nut flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't raise the turn because I had just been check-raised by a normally non-aggressive player. I figured, aggression stat of .5, he bet the flop, he's check raising me, so he must have something better than my pair of kings. I'm not gonna fold of course, so I just call and hope to improve.

TomBrooks · #7 08-27-2005, 06:38 AM

FLOP: The way SB bet out on the flop into our preflop raising hero makes me think he holds an Ace or he's overplaying Two :clubs:. Of course, the Ace he holds could be the Ace [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

TURN: Kind of strange SB would Checkraise here. How did he know Hero would bet when he checked? He read Hero right or just got lucky and Hero fell into the trap. SB seems to have two clubs or maybe a straight. Board is highly coordinated and very dangerous.

RIVER: When Villian Checks the River after pulling off his surprising Check Raise on the Turn, it looks like he's afraid of a higher one Club holder. Then he Checkraises again. This guy seems very tricky and he may be a good hand and people reader.

He figured our Hero had high cards because we raised preflop. He figured there was a good chance if one of those cards wasn't a club, Hero would just fold if he bet out on this River. So he checked, hoping that one of our Hero's cards was a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and feigning like he was afraid of a single high [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Again, he set a trap when the opportunity developed, and bang, we fell right into it. You can't fold here though.

===========
The OP asks if there is any street he should raise. Is that a trick question? Our Hero is probably beaten on the Flop and clearly beaten on the Turn and River. That or Villian is a Nut, Donk or Maniac. The only reason to call to these checkraises is in the hope that he is one of those three.

@bsolute_luck · #8 08-27-2005, 06:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
really don't like the turn bet. if you think your hand was good on the flop you should have reraised.

i too wish you hadn't shown the river because now i'm pretty sure he has the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (unless he's a retard), because it would have been hard for me to simply call if he bet into me or fold to a 3-bet having the 2nd nut flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't raise the turn because I had just been check-raised by a normally non-aggressive player. I figured, aggression stat of .5, he bet the flop, he's check raising me, so he must have something better than my pair of kings. I'm not gonna fold of course, so I just call and hope to improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you mean the flop? and that's what i meant in my post: if you thought he was betting a J or something, then you should reraise then. but i believe you put him on an A, your hand improved on the turn and he's given you the free card on the turn, take it.

you made a decision on the flop and by this post, you've clearly stated why you made that decision (wrong or right is indifferent)- the fact is, that hasn't changed on the turn, so why bet it?

that same thinking should be followed to the river based on what you think his play throughout the hand means.

#9 08-27-2005, 07:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]

you made a decision on the flop and by this post, you've clearly stated why you made that decision (wrong or right is indifferent)- the fact is, that hasn't changed on the turn, so why bet it?

that same thinking should be followed to the river based on what you think his play throughout the hand means.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you're right. If I thought he was beating me on the flop, why am I betting the turn? I think because he checked, and checkraising is not too common in the tables I play at, and so I figured his check meant he didn't have me beat. Duh, it didn't occur to me that he may have checked because there were 3 to a flush on the table.

#10 08-27-2005, 07:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This guy seems very tricky and he may be a good hand and people reader.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what freaked me out about this hand. How does a guy with a vpip of 65% and an aggression stat of .5 manage to be so tricky? Maybe the original guy walked out of the room and let his friend play this one hand [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]