JJ in the SB -- you'll hate this line

Maulik · #1 12-07-2005, 11:53 PM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises, Button calls, Hero folds, BB folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Button raises, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (14 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 14 BB

damaniac · #2 12-07-2005, 11:59 PM

Um...you forgot to raise preflop. And failing that, on the flop. And folding was just terrible. Is this a joke?

toss · #3 12-07-2005, 11:59 PM

You might want to explain your thought process to us.

W. Deranged · #4 12-08-2005, 12:01 AM

I would comment that I'd played every street differently but it's sort of an odd comment as you didn't even play the last two...

Maulik · #5 12-08-2005, 12:03 AM

First, I'm a NL player.

The reason for the call rather than 3-bet. I don't beleive I'm getting any pocket pairs, any small suited connectors in this hand.

I do not want to price myself in for the rest of this hand against 5 opponents. If an A,K,Q falls on the flop w/o a Jack I think I can safely assume my hand may as well be Jack high.

damaniac · #6 12-08-2005, 12:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
First, I'm a NL player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah ok, we didn't know. Not that we'll be any nicer.

[ QUOTE ]
The reason for the call rather than 3-bet. I don't beleive I'm getting any pocket pairs, any small suited connectors in this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but you have a better hand than them that will win more often, and you earn value on every bet that goes into the pot. Suited connectors and low pp's in this case are behind you. The only way they make money is from implied odds. The more they have to put in preflop, the more they have to make up postflop and the less profitable their play will be. This means you gain.

[ QUOTE ]
I do not want to price myself in for the rest of this hand against 5 opponents. If an A,K,Q falls on the flop w/o a Jack I think I can safely assume my hand may as well be Jack high.

[/ QUOTE ]

Weak-tight thinking. I am not loving those cards, esp an A, against this crowd, but by no means are you automatically beat on say a Q high board. Furthermore, you will flop an overpair a subtantial portion of the time (half?). And sometimes overs will fall with a J. Anyway, you're putting in 1/6th of the money for a hand that will win well over 1/6th of the time (maybe 45/50%?). Huge profit there, don't pass up on it. All those times your opponents miss the flop, you gain bigtime. And that will be often.

SlyGuy · #7 12-08-2005, 12:13 AM

I think you might need to learn a little about limit poker.

Harv72b · #8 12-08-2005, 12:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
First, I'm a NL player.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you never fold an overpair in a limit game, you'll do alright.

For this hand...the only reason not to 3-bet preflop is if you're planning to check/raise a safe flop. You couldn't have asked for a safer flop, short of XJJ. But anyway, you should 3-bet preflop--not so much to shorten the field (although that'd be nice), but for value. The odds are very good that you have the best hand at that point in time, and if people want to call 2 more bets with smaller pocket pairs or suited connectors or crap aces, that's just even better for you.

El Tigre · #9 12-08-2005, 12:14 AM

I would suggest going to the micros for a while. It is obvious that at this point you do not grasp some of the fundamentals of limit holdem. Go back to basics, because playing like this is definietly
-EV

W. Deranged · #10 12-08-2005, 12:32 AM

I think you are suffering quite heavily from your No Limit Legacy.

In limit hold'em, many of the factors that dominate decisions in no limit (controlling the size of the pot, not compromising your stack on mediocre hands, and so on) are not in play. Limit is about pushing often small edges in equity, and often those edges require risking a lot of bets in situations you'll lose a reasonable amount of the time.

Not reraising out of the small blind may be standard in no limit for those sorts of reasons. It's not in limit. We three-bet JJ out of the blinds usually.