Isolating a TAG

crunchy1 · #1 07-26-2005, 10:16 AM

UTG+1 was a TAG. I've been finding success in isolating TAG-type players who limp in EP. Given the type of player they are and the range of hands that this type of player will limp in EP - I find it easy to steal a lot of pots on the flop/turn when my isolation is successful.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

I was almost positive that I was ahead with top pair on the flop. The turn stop'n'go was confusing to say the least. I feel sick reviewing this hand and looking at my call down. Comment/Discuss/Berate. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

brettbrettr · #2 07-26-2005, 10:21 AM

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Given the type of player they are and the range of hands that this type of player will limp in EP

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Do you think that given this the river is a fold?

SeaEagle · #3 07-26-2005, 10:31 AM

Isn't the idea of isolating the tag to take away the small pot when he misses the flop? I find that when I get played back at, especially in only a semi-aggressive fashion, that the tag actually has a hand. I think I'd have folded the turn here and looked for a better place.

Incidentally, if you've been isolating him enough that it's bugging him, then the donkbet probably shows more strength than a flop 3-bet or a turn c/r.

DemonDeac · #4 07-26-2005, 10:34 AM

based on their PT stats, for the blinds fold enough for this to be a succesfful isolation move most of the time??

crunchy1 · #5 07-26-2005, 10:38 AM

SeaEagle - This is the first time I had the opportunity to isolate him like this.

Deac - I felt certain enough that the blinds would fold out here.

Padawan Learner · #6 07-26-2005, 10:39 AM

Crunchy:

[ QUOTE ]
I've been finding success in isolating TAG-type players who limp in EP. Given the type of player they are and the range of hands that this type of player will limp in EP - I find it easy to steal a lot of pots on the flop/turn when my isolation is successful.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it. But to do it with A2o OTB, I would like to know that the blinds are very likely to stay out of my way. If they are loose, I would pass.

Anyone like a turn raise for a free showdown? I think I do...especially if you plan on going call, call.

crunchy1 · #7 07-26-2005, 10:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Given the type of player they are and the range of hands that this type of player will limp in EP

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Do you think that given this the river is a fold?

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That's a good question. My range for Villian here was something along the lines of Axs, Kxs, 22-88, possibly suited connectors/one-gaps.

Put yourself in Villian's shoes. What range are you putting me on when I raise PF and raise the flop.

crunchy1 · #8 07-26-2005, 10:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
to do it with A2o OTB, I would like to know that the blinds are very likely to stay out of my way. If they are loose, I would pass.

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Agreed - as I said previously (probably while you were composing this post) I had no quams about folding out the blinds.

Incidentally, I think folding out hands can be marginally more successful when the player you're isolating is a decent player. There aren't many players that are aware but, the decent, better ones (which are the most likely to be paying attention) will generally notice that you're isolating another good player and will probably fold some higher quality hands than normal - giving you credit for a premuim holding that you can raise another good player with.

Jake (The Snake) · #9 07-26-2005, 10:46 AM

Well you are defenetely behind a Tag's EP limp range preflop... the problem then becomes whether or not raising and stealing flops against small pocket pairs will occur often enough to make up the difference.

You also have to consider the blinds since they will wake up with hands sometimes. If the blinds are tight they are likely only playing back with hands that have you in big trouble. I don't know if the preflop play is +EV or not, but I'd probably wait for something a bit better than A2o.

Postflop, if I was going to fold anywhere it would be the turn. Either he is trying to donk/3-bet you or is afraid of giving a free card. Even if the latter is true he will sometimes be ahead of you.

Once you get to the river you have to call.

Entity · #10 07-26-2005, 10:47 AM

I'd fold preflop, call the flop, raise the turn, and check the river most likely.