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| View Poll Results: Do you Make More or Less at Poker than the Average 2+2er? | |||
| More |
   
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24 | 68.57% |
| Less |
  
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11 | 31.43% |
| Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#2
07-07-2004, 01:42 AM
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Re: Read of the Year?
That was a standard play. There was nothing special about it.
There's just no chance at all that Forrest is going to fold on 3rd street with any pair. On 4th street he caught a 3-flush to go with his pair. By 6th street, his opponent still hadn't made an open pair on his uncoordinated board. So, Forrest has every reason to believe that he is drawing live on those occassions his opponent does have a pair. The river call is automatic. You could argue that Forrest should have raised at some point to try to win the pot immediately. I've played many hands just like this one. Usually, I'm the bring in with split 2's. It's gets folded around to a person in late position, usually the player on my immediate right. He makes the automatic raise to steal the antes and I defend. The most intersting hand like this was one I observed between Clarkmeister and Tommy Angelo in one of my home games. Clarkmeister raised on 3rd and Tommy called him with split 2's. Clarkmeister bet on 4th, 5th, and 6th streets without any scary coming on either player's boards. On 7th, Clarkmeister checked and Tommy looked at him thoughtfully. I broke in and said something like "What are you waiting for Tommy? A pair of deuces are good. Bet!". Tommy gave me a strange look and checked. Clarkmeister said "You heard him. A pair of deuces are good." Tommy showed his 2's and Clarkmeister mucked. Tommy said he didn't like the idea of playing stud with me. But, it's not really that hard of a read. 
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#3
07-07-2004, 02:03 AM
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Re: Read of the Year?
I'm not that much of a Stud analyst, so I didn't catch the three-flush upon first viewing. However, with deuces being the worst possible pair, wouldn't the average player have suspected that his opponent held at least a higher pair - even if just a medium one?
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#4
07-07-2004, 02:18 AM
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Re: Read of the Year?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not that much of a Stud analyst, so I didn't catch the three-flush upon first viewing. However, with deuces being the worst possible pair, wouldn't the average player have suspected that his opponent held at least a higher pair - even if just a medium one? [/ QUOTE ] Even if Forrest was 100% sure his opponet had a bigger pair, he would be wrong to fold his 22. The big difference in stud vs. hold 'em is the lack of communtity cards. That means a smaller pair isn't nearly as big a dog against a bigger pair. It's very possible, and common, for the smaller pair to make two-pair while the bigger pair goes unimproved. If Forrest's oppomnent had made any open pair, then Forrest would have to fold his deuces unless he's picked up some other good draw (four flush or open-ended straight). Forrest kept calling quickly not because it was some good read but because the decision to continue with the hand was rather automatic.
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#5
07-07-2004, 02:39 AM
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Re: Read of the Year?
[ QUOTE ]
Even if Forrest was 100% sure his opponet had a bigger pair, he would be wrong to fold his 22. The big difference in stud vs. hold 'em is the lack of communtity cards. That means a smaller pair isn't nearly as big a dog against a bigger pair. It's very possible, and common, for the smaller pair to make two-pair while the bigger pair goes unimproved. [/ QUOTE ] Sure, but what about the call on seventh street? 22 remained unimproved at that point. Furthermore, if Forrest suspected that he was up against a slightly better hand that might fold when faced with a raise, then he would have raised. I submit that he called, not hoping to improve, but to allow a worse hand to bet for him.
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#6
07-07-2004, 04:35 AM
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Re: Read of the Year?
Sure, but what about the call on seventh street? 22 remained unimproved at that point.
Furthermore, if Forrest suspected that he was up against a slightly better hand that might fold when faced with a raise, then he would have raised. I submit that he called, not hoping to improve, but to allow a worse hand to bet for him. I don't intend to be smug, but you should read 7CSFAP. Once you read that book, you won't be asking this question.
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#7
07-07-2004, 06:57 AM
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Re: Read of the Year?
When was this Stud event aired? I thought the episode on Tuesday night was just NLHE? Can anyone tell me? I got it on Tivo but haven't watched yet. thanks.
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#10
07-07-2004, 09:53 AM
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What?!
Even if Forrest was 100% sure his opponet had a bigger pair, he would be wrong to fold his 22. The big difference in stud vs. hold 'em is the lack of communtity cards. That means a smaller pair isn't nearly as big a dog against a bigger pair. It's very possible, and common, for the smaller pair to make two-pair while the bigger pair goes unimproved.
I hope you have more to add to this, about overcards or reads or playing against a habitual bluffer, or something ... or I'm going to have to read 7CSFAP again to find THAT passage! I must have missed it while reading the "it's okay to chase two smaller pairs with your bigger pair" section. Dynasty, you can't SERIOUSLY be telling me that you should chase a bigger pair on a regular basis with a lower pair ONLY.
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