K9s on the button

[Aces McGee]

Hi all...I've been making more hand posts than hand responses lately. I apologize for that, but this is a hand that I played last night that could generate some interesting discussion (I think).

Party 3/6. No reads that I can think of as of now (don't have any notes with me).

Four limpers to me on the button and I call with the Ks9s. The SB raises, BB and limpers call and I call. 7 to the flop.

Kh Qd 8s. SB bets, BB folds, and UTG+1 raises next up. It's folded to me. I call, as does the SB.

Turn is 2s. SB checks, UTG+1 bets, I raise.

Comments on flop and turn appreciated. Thanks.

-McGee

[sean c]

I will leave the flop to others. I hate folding but your not closing the action and would guess your drawing pretty slim. I do hate the turn raise if you think your folding a better hand here your crazy.

[chief444]

Sure. The flop is a tough one to fold with so much money in the middle. When SB just calls and UTG bets again and you picked up the flush draw raising seems pretty standard to me.

[sean c]

[ QUOTE ]
Sure. The flop is a tough one to fold with so much money in the middle. When SB just calls and UTG bets again and you picked up the flush draw raising seems pretty standard to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[lozen]

Because you have added more outs and your top pair could still be good as the BB could be on an open ended draw. Myself I would just call but...

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]
When SB just calls and UTG bets again and you picked up the flush draw raising seems pretty standard to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with this but maybe I'm missing something.

I think we're almost certainly behind to UTG+1, who raised into the whole field and then bet out the turn.

We have a ton of outs but no fold equity, and possibly might not even get a free showdown.

I'd like to just call. But my ears are still open.

[Rico Suave]

Aces:

I am probably going against the grain here, but I would probably fold this flop, barring some kind of read on UTG+1 & sb. I just think you are behind almost all of the time, and when you are behind, you likely have very few outs. And, you have to be afraid of a reraise behind you. I don't think you can continue here unless you think that there is a relatively decent (I don't know how to quantify it) chance that you are ahead. And if you think there is a decent chance, is a flop 3 bet better than that flat call?

I do think that the turn raise is consistent with your flop play (that you think you are ahead here sometimes) and I think I like it--Large pot, there are some hands that sb could hold that you would like him to fold (AJs, ATs, etc), plenty of outs even when you are behind...etc.

--Rico

[Dagger78]

Does the turn raise really accomplish anything? What hand is the small blind going to fold that beats us? I think there is little chance you are ahead, and there isn't any reason to pay 2BBs to draw to the flush.

Depending on table reads I am likely folding this flop too. I think the turn raise sucks.

[sean c]

Okay everyone needs to go read A turn play by Nate Meyvis in the September magazine. It is very much like this hand.I still don't think I am convinced but go read it.