TPTK early in the PS $500k

[stevepa]

Third or fourth hand of the tournament, no one has really done anything so stacks are all around 2500 and I have basically no reads. Preflop seems pretty normal. I think the flop, turn and river decisions are all fairly interesting so I'll start with the flop...

Button (HERO) 2500
SB 2500
BB 2500

Blinds (10/20)

Hero has A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and raises to 60. SB and BB both call.

Flop is J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Pot(180)

SB bets 180, BB folds, Hero...?

I'll post the turn (and my flop action) after a couple replies. I'll probably just keep the one thread unless it gets bogged down.

Thanks,

Steve

[mlagoo]

I'm obviously not folding on this flop until I see a lot more action, so there's two lines that I'd take: 1) the gamblooor option, or 2) the safe/aggressive option.

with 1) i'm calling, intending to raise any turn bet (even a K or Q turn). I think this gets the most value out of bluffs, mid-pocket pairs, middle pair, etc.

with 2) i'm raising here, hoping to take it down because i'm not dying to see a K/Q/T/8 turn. I'd probably raise it to somewhere around 500.

I sort of mix it up with these lines.

Oh and if I raise and get reraised on the flop, I'm almost always flat-calling and calling a turn push.

Someone should feel perfectly willing to come along and tell me these lines are terrible. I'm used to playing in PP tourneys, which have much shallower stacks and less room to manuever. That probably changes the dynamic a bit. But in the tourneys I play, with no reraise preflop, I can't see not getting broke here (or doubling up).

I'd probably raise, the sb is probably just trying to steal a quick pot, if he 3bets you can safely fold.

[stevepa]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably raise, the sb is probably just trying to steal a quick pot, if he 3bets you can safely fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't this win the least when ahead, lose the most when behind? Although it doesn't allow him to draw out on you and prevents later difficult decisions. If he's stealing, how many outs/what kind of hand do you think he has? What if he calls? What do you do on the turn?

Thanks,

Steve

[stevepa]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone should feel perfectly willing to come along and tell me these lines are terrible. I'm used to playing in PP tourneys, which have much shallower stacks and less room to manuever. That probably changes the dynamic a bit. But in the tourneys I play, with no reraise preflop, I can't see not getting broke here (or doubling up).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is how I feel too. I've never played NL cash games so I don't really have a clue how to play such a deep stack...

Steve

[MLG]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm obviously not folding on this flop until I see a lot more action, so there's two lines that I'd take: 1) the gamblooor option, or 2) the safe/aggressive option.

with 1) i'm calling, intending to raise any turn bet (even a K or Q turn). I think this gets the most value out of bluffs, mid-pocket pairs, middle pair, etc.

with 2) i'm raising here, hoping to take it down because i'm not dying to see a K/Q/T/8 turn. I'd probably raise it to somewhere around 500.

I sort of mix it up with these lines.

Oh and if I raise and get reraised on the flop, I'm almost always flat-calling and calling a turn push.

Someone should feel perfectly willing to come along and tell me these lines are terrible. I'm used to playing in PP tourneys, which have much shallower stacks and less room to manuever. That probably changes the dynamic a bit. But in the tourneys I play, with no reraise preflop, I can't see not getting broke here (or doubling up).



[/ QUOTE ]

1. Calling the flop is a nice option, but I can't see raising the turn. If he leads again on the turn and I still think I'm ahead I'll call, raising is basically committing my whole stack on a pretty meh hand, which pretty much never folds out something better.

2. This is generally my default line for several reasons. First I will often raise hands like AK/AQ in this spot because SBs range is fairly large, and even if he calls I'll follow up on the turn sometimes if I think I've got a good chance of folding him. Second, there are many players who will pay off the raise with a worse hand now like KJ/QJ/J10 and you can get the most out of him by raising here, checking the turn and value betting/calling the enduced bluff on the river, if the board stays safe. After the raise a small-mid value bet on the turn also works if its an ok card. The only down side is if he will blow you off the hand with a worse holding. but I can't see many players going nuts and 3-betting worse made hands. Occasionally I might 3 bet 109 against a good thinking opponent if I'm the blind, but you guys dont seem to have that history.

all in all, I like a raise.

[JupiterUWG]

if youre confident in your post-flop play in this semi-large buy-in tourney, I'd say flat call and let the hand play itself since you are in position

[ansky451]

Since I raise the SB with almost any 2, yeah I'm raising TPTK. Most of the players early in the 500k are donks, so I would also consider calling a 3-bet.

I don't like waiting for the turn to raise. If I'm just calling the flop, I'm doing that again on the turn, because I think that line looks especially strong, and I dont see you getting better hands to fold or worse hands to call. You also get a shitload too much $$ in the pot with just 1 pair, which he could easily be ahead of if he calls your turn bet. Especially if it is a queen, which is a very bad card. In general with big pot sized flop leads, I don't give credit to players for a set, even though that is sometimes the line I take with a set.

There's a lot of crummy turn cards, that 1) kill your action from worse hands, and 2) Improve your opponents hand. I like a raise here, and sure, if he folds you dont win a big pot, but I think if you take the safe route, and just call you have to continue to call down on the turn and river, and not raise at any point, unless maybe a 2 turns.

[stevepa]

Ok, so fairly mixed results between raising/calling the flop. I decided to call, mainly because I would hate to be 3-bet. Here's the turn (as well as the earlier action):

Third or fourth hand of the tournament, no one has really done anything so stacks are all around 2500 and I have basically no reads. Preflop seems pretty normal. I think the flop, turn and river decisions are all fairly interesting so I'll start with the flop...

Button (HERO) 2500
SB 2500
BB 2500

Blinds (10/20)

Hero has A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and raises to 60. SB and BB both call.

Flop is J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Pot(180)

SB bets 180, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Pot (540)

SB bets 500, Hero...?

I'll post the river (and my turn action) after a couple replies. I'll probably just keep the one thread unless it gets bogged down.

Thanks,

Steve

[mlagoo]

nobody likes raising this turn?

I think that line looks fairly strong as well (actually, it pretty much exactly describes our hand to a thinking opponent) -- he should put us on exactly AJ or a pocket pair QQ+. Which, you know, is what we have.

I mean, a beautiful card fell for us. I really don't think he leads this turn for a full pot AGAIN with a set -- he probably checks to let us try to "take it away." I think we're ahead, but I also think we get more chips in (and more information) by value betting the turn rather than the flop or the river.

Maybe I'm thinking all wrong =/