AK suited vs. ridiculous overbet...Super Monday

[adanthar]

This thread kinda sucks, mostly because of this:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 48.1191 % 42.57% 05.54% { AKs }
Hand 2: 51.8809 % 46.34% 05.54% { QQ-22, AKs, AKo }

[TomHimself]

yea thats a better range, but i still think its a call

[ QUOTE ]
I can't be the only one who wouldnt take a coinflip for their whole stack very early in a multitable. Every book out there on NL tourneys says to aviod this. Im not a straight-by-the-book player, but this should be pretty sensible advice. I don't think I'm out on a limb here either, as I've made 10 final tables and won 6 tournies.

You bust out so often on the cointosses, when people will hand you chips later on by pulling this move when you have aces or kings (or against this guy, probably queens as well). If you dont trust that your skill can earn you better than a 50/50 chance versus a bad player like this, then you have no business playing in tourneys.

[/ QUOTE ]

Winning coin-flips, even early, is essential to almost any tournament win.. You can't fear going broke to win a tourney

[tshak]

I'm gunna have to side with Requin here. I can double my stack early on, many times without having to stick all my chips in the middle let alone on the bad side of a coin flip with a little dead money. I'd have to be pretty certain that the average opponent can outplay me at the flop before I loosen my early tournament allin calling requirements, or I'd have to be certain my opponent is the type to move with a weaker Ace. Unless the action is along the lines of a $20 SnG, I'm probably folding all but KK+ here unless I get a specific read to convince me that a weaker hand will be worth calling with.

[ QUOTE ]

Winning coin-flips, even early, is essential to almost any tournament win.


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe there's debate about this line amongst experts that I don't know about, but this goes completely against what I understand experts to recommend.

[ekky]

Experts recommend avoiding coinflips in tourneys with deep stacks and long levels. Internet tournies (generally) dont satisfy either of these conditions.

As an example, did you listen to the exit interviews of the professionals after event number 1 of the WSOP?

They certainly weren't trying to avoid close decisions for their stack.


Its fine to proclaim you can sit and wait for the golden goose of pair vs underpair to come along, but before you know it, and the blinds are 50-100 and you are dribbling away with 1100 chips, i bet you would give your left eye to get into a AK vs underpair situation.

Why wait until later to hope to get the same situation you are facing now

[curtains]

I would fold. You do usually have to gamble sometimes to win a MTT, and I try to avoid being hesitant to go after small edges because of some skill advantage I may believe I have. However this is just too much.

You have too many chips, and the chances you're only a coinflip here are too high. You don't want to go out of your way to flip a coin early in the tournament. Sometimes it will come up where the blinds are too high, and there is too much money in the pot and thus you have no choice. In this spot you clearly do have a choice and I don't even know if there is even a small edge for you here math wise.

(Maybe a very tiny one, because there are some insane pepole out there that would simply decide to push with AJs here.)

[PancakeBoy]

I'm surprised at how manny people want to get all their money on a COINFLIIP. This is precisely what you want to avoid early in the tournamentn with a big stack. You accumulated a nice juicy stack and you can use it to gain chips in WAY less risky situations, stealing blinds, raising out players on flops, etc.

If you had 22 and raised on the button with 3k chips at 25/50 blinds, and sb folds and big blind flips his cards and goes all in with AKs and it folds back to you....do you want to call there? heh. it's a coinflip...!!

I think this is a terrible mentality to have: "well u gotta win a coinflip so might as well take one when it comes!" It is generally true that you have to win flips to win tournaments but that does not mean you use that as an excuse to risk your nice juicy bigstack early on in a tournament!!! Fold!

[MeanGreenTT]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't be the only one who wouldnt take a coinflip for their whole stack very early in a multitable. Every book out there on NL tourneys says to aviod this.
.
.
You bust out so often on the cointosses, when people will hand you chips later on by pulling this move when you have aces or kings .

[/ QUOTE ]

Depending on structure, you HAVE to gamble early, playing it like a cash game.

I play in a weekly 150MTT, starting with T700 and 20 minute rounds. You don't have time to wait for the big ones. I've opened up my game a TON in this particular game (adjusting) and it's worked out QUITE well....but nowhere near the #s you've made....

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm at a little over 3500 at 25/50 blinds. I've been fairly aggressive and people haven't really been playing back. However, this is the main villain's first hand at the table. UTG+1 and 2 have been here a while, are semi-loose but pretty passive.

Hero UTG (3615)
UTG+1 (1720)
UTG+2 (1735)
Villain CO (3210)

Preflop:
Hero raises to T150 with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Villain raises to T3210 (all-in)
Hero...?

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd put villian on Q/Q-A/A or another A/K. I think in this spot that you're likely behind a good majority of the time, and chopping the other portion of it. I'd give it up and wait for a better spot, you aren't pot-committed.

[scal78]

I didn't read the rest of the replies, but isn't something to consider the fact that UTG+1 and UTG+2 (original callers) are holding some of your outs. Wouldn't they be calling an UTG raise with A-Q, A-J or something along those lines. The fact that they called, makes me more hesitant to get into a race where I'm fairly certain that some of my cards are being held by the 2 original pre-flop callers.