Stud8 - Small 2 pair on 5th against A23

[Aaron W.]

I had only been at the table for about 8-10 hands before this one came up.

7 Card Stud High-Low ($1/$2), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $0.50 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.50 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (4.00 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 8: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

5th Street - (4.00 BB)

Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___????
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Should I have not bet 4th with the other low draws out there? I think it might have been better to check-call or maybe even check-fold.

I really don't know how I should be looking at 5th. If he only has a pair of aces, I've got a very tiny lead. If he has a different pair and 4 low, I've got a slightly larger lead. If he has a made low, I'm in not-so-good shape. Do I bail out because the pot is small, or do I play on?

[djr]

I bail. You only have two outs to a boat. He's likely got a low at this point or at least 4 to a low. With an A23 your odds of snaking the low are very minimal, whereas his odds of catching a straight or better two pair is reasonably decent.

The bet on 4th just isn't reasonable with 3 potential lows to act.

[Paxosmotic]

I'm actually wondering more about the preflop call. We've got an offsuit ace and a pretty weak low with a few potentially stronger lows yet to act.

Once we reach 5th, I'm actually thinking we should call down. I disagree that we only have 2 outs, I think we have 4, the other aces, to a better two pair. Also, it's highly likely that villain is settling for the low, so we can at least get our money back from the pot and move on.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm actually wondering more about the preflop call. We've got an offsuit ace and a pretty weak low with a few potentially stronger lows yet to act.

[/ QUOTE ]

3rd street was passive. Nobody had completed the bet since I sat down, and with no ace on the board except mine, I had no reason to suspect it would get raised. With the ante a little on the high side, I think I'm okay if I take a loose peel to see what develops on 4th.

Of course, play from that point is questionable.

[bigredlemon]

3rd is usually a raise or fold.

[mscags]

I don't see much use in limping with this on third. I think you need to raise and play it heads up hopefully, or fold. Your hand doesn't do well multiway

Mike

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see much use in limping with this on third. I think you need to raise and play it heads up hopefully, or fold. Your hand doesn't do well multiway

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Does the fact that the table is only currently 6-handed instead of 8-handed have much bearing on this? Or is this simlpy a standard sort of raise/fold situation I should learn?

[Andy B]

Your starting hand is OK but nothing to get excited about. At the risk of sounding condescending, you would probably do well to fold it, especially in early position, because you have to play the later streets well in order to show any profit with it. I personally will limp in with a hand like this in a very passive game, raise with it in a very tight game, but fold it if the game is at all aggressive.

Betting fourth is an example of not playing the later streets well. While yours would be a decent two-way hand under some circumstances, it's pretty weak here. With all those strong low boards out, your three-card Eight is pretty worthless, and a pair of Eights isn't anything to get too excited about. I would definitely check, half hoping that it would get bet and raised behind me so I could forget about it. You might call one bet and hope that things come down really well on fifth, but folding is probably the better play.

Having made two crappy pair against a scary board, I do think you should call this one down. It would be a lot more tenuous if the other guy were showing 654, as a straight is much more likely. If you had not improved, this would be a pretty clear fold.

[Paxosmotic]

I don't care how silly it sounds, as a person who is trying to learn Stud it is very encouraging to post my advice (fold 3rd, call down), and have someone as respected as Andy echo those sentiments. There's hope for me yet, ma!

[benneh]

I would raise this hand on 3rd in hopes to steal the antes, or at very least, get it heads up or 3-way, but at 1/2 i'm not sure how possible it is to do that.