Rockford Charitable Games questions/rant LONG

[HitHard69]

Just got back from the 7-26 event in Arlington Hts, and I know there are a few posters here who play these events, so I've got a few questions and a rant...
Questions
1. Is there any sort of order? It seems like each dealer has his/her own set of rules. I played 1-3 and 2-5 tonight and some dealers made new players post when they sat down, some didnt. Some took your blinds when you went on a break, some dealt you out.
2. Is there a floor person? I know the guy up front is in charge of the wait lists, but is that it? We had a dealer tonite deal the river early, realized there was still action from the turn, and announced "Sorry guys, Jack of hearts will be your river." I wasn't in the hand, but I felt compelled to speak up, and say "Leave the burn and shuffle the river back into the deck." I was told that isn't the way to do thing. I know the dealers there are volunteers, but still
3. Tips for the dealers. I haven't been able to determine if they keep them or not. It seems like some dealers take the rake, wait till they have $5 in rake and drop a red. If its a tip, they drop the whites, and thats how they tell the diff. between rake and tip. But some dealers leave the tips with the rake and color that to reds before dropping it, making it impossible to tell whats rake and whats tips.

Now for my rant
With there being no true floorperson to go to, it seems like this is basically a free-for-all. When I sat down tonite there were two players across from the table who were obviously friends, talking to each other, and one asked the other how long they were going to stay, etc. I had noticed a few times when they were in pots together they would bet everyone out then check it down. The final time came on a board of 10,7,3 rainbow. Friend one bets, friend two raises, 2 other players fold. Turn is a Jack, check, check. River was a blank, check, check. Friend one turns over QQ, friend two AA. One player, oblivious to the collusion, told the player with aces he should bet those. I asked the player 2 to my left, so everyone could hear it "Have they been doing this all night...betting everyone out and checking it down?" Even the dealer didn't understand what I was getting at. Thankfully they left shortly after.

Another complaint I have is the dealers not taking control of the game. The player to my left (for the stories sake, we'll call him Ted) was basically trying to run the game, telling people when it was thier blinds, announcing winning hands, basically annoying the hell out me. One dealer forgot to deal a card to seat 10, dealt to seat 1, realized her mistake and quickly grabbed the card (before seat 1 saw it) and slid it to seat 10. "Ted" starts gathering the cards from the players and tells the dealer its a misdeal. Dealer doesn't say a word. Final straw came with Ted on this hand. "Player B" had rivered two flushes against Ted in one orbit, and so he was a little on tilt. Final board was Ac Qc Jc and two small, non paired non clubs. I held QQ. I bet, Ted raised, player B calls I call. Player shows AJ for 2 pair, I show my set. Ted stands up, lifts his cards over his head, looks at player B and says "Didn't draw out on me this time. Royal F-ing Flush" and slams the K,10 of clubs down on top of the community cards. The board cards scatter, and his 10 of clubs flips face down in the muck. I nor the dealer saw the 10 of clubs. Dealer starts to push the pot towards Ted. I say "Hang on, thats a dead hand. Half his hand was never shown and he threw his cards into the muck when the touched the board. Dealer says "Did anyone see his cards?" Two players say they saw the 10 of clubs. I insist it's a dead hand (normally I wouldn't do this if his hand could be verified, but I was at the point where I wanted to slap the taste out of Ted's mouth). Dealer starts turning over cards from the muck, and the 3rd one is the 10 of clubs. He has "There, you happy?" I said "Absolutly not" And I racked up and left.

Edited for spelling

[BlindingLaser]

Nope, that's about right. You forgot to mention the fact that it's a $5 rake and that the chips are sticky, but otherwise, you nailed it. Technically the guy behind the desk doubles as floorman, but he's pretty biased towards regulars.

[DeezNutz3]

Yep, Scott is his name and I don't go as much as I used to but the tournament can be fun eventhough it is a crapshoot. The 10/20 game is usually on of the weaker ones around.

[tinga81]

I had thought about making it out there for some play today, but the rain deterred my thoughts. The past few times I have gone to the RCG's, I didn't experience the same as you had, but I could definately see how that would happen (they aren't the best at running the show). Sorry to hear about the mishaps.

In my experiences with the dealers at the events, they aren't the best, but there are a few good ones. I sure hope that the next time I go they don't plan on taking blinds as I am on a break, that's absurd.

As for the tips, I'm not sure how their system works. As I know it goes to 'charity' (does anyone ever know what charity they money is going for? heh)

I haven't played their tournaments, but I have thought about it recently. If anyone can assist, how do their tournaments usually play through? I know there are some terrible players there.

[PocketJokers72]

[ QUOTE ]

As for the tips, I'm not sure how their system works. As I know it goes to 'charity' (does anyone ever know what charity they money is going for? heh)

I haven't played their tournaments, but I have thought about it recently. If anyone can assist, how do their tournaments usually play through? I know there are some terrible players there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Each event has a different charity. RCG is contracted by charities to run these 'fundraisers'. FWIW, RCG hardly makes any profit off of these deals; the charity gets the lion's share.

The SNG's are awful. Short starting stacks, steep blind structure, 12 handed to start.

The tourneys are a little better structure wise, but not much. Horrible players is the norm. Crapshoot at the end due to high blinds.

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]
Now for my rant
With there being no true floorperson to go to, it seems like this is basically a free-for-all. When I sat down tonite there were two players across from the table who were obviously friends, talking to each other, and one asked the other how long they were going to stay, etc. I had noticed a few times when they were in pots together they would bet everyone out then check it down. The final time came on a board of 10,7,3 rainbow. Friend one bets, friend two raises, 2 other players fold. Turn is a Jack, check, check. River was a blank, check, check. Friend one turns over QQ, friend two AA. One player, oblivious to the collusion, told the player with aces he should bet those. I asked the player 2 to my left, so everyone could hear it "Have they been doing this all night...betting everyone out and checking it down?" Even the dealer didn't understand what I was getting at. Thankfully they left shortly after.


[/ QUOTE ]
I don't have a problem with this.. does anyone else? They obviously made an agreement early on that if they got heads-up, they would check it down. This IS NOT collusion! This is two friends that decided they were not going to rape each other if they did not have to. You can not assume collusion here especially when they are holding AA and QQ [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Personally, I would not play this way (because I have no ill feelings taking my friend's money or losing it to them), but I am not involved here. I would agree that if one guy had AA and the other had 94o, then collusion is definately here, but these 2 both had legitimate hands and when it got heads up they decided to check down. Best hand wins, move on...

[peterchi]

i agree, this definitely is not collusion.

another example -- i was at the MGM playing 3/6, and two guys at the table are friends with each other. one is getting drunk and just starting to play like a maniac.

anyways i raise pre-flop with AKo, they both call. the flop is Q52 and they bet me out of it. once the drunk guy sees that he's heads up with his buddy, he laughs and says "i'm sorry" to him, tells the dealer they're gonna check it down, and he flips over 52o which holds up against his buddy's QJo.

this is not collusion, and i was laughing along with them.

[peterchi]

i sent this thread to my gf who has been playing in these games, and will be a dealer there soon (she's doing her dealer training today). here's what she had to say:


---------
hm

interesting

yep seems pretty accurate. although some of the dealers are really good.. not
mgm grand good, but decent. but there was definitely a miscommunication or
Whatev at my table about whether or not you have to post when you miss a
blind... 2 guys at my table had to but then i didnt have to. but it's
weird cuz
you dont have to post when you come in so i dunno.

...

i mean, the thing that they have to think about is that it's *charity*
...theres no [real] dealer school and although some tips go to dealers, its not that
much...

also, if it werent for this, about 1/2 of the attendees would have to wait 3
more years to play poker in a casino like setting. (since the age is 18)
---------


sorry i chopped it up a little. anyways, i'll tell her to take over and clean up their act [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[canis582]

[ QUOTE ]

i mean, the thing that they have to think about is that it's *charity*


[/ QUOTE ]

Charity and poker, what a natural combination.

Enough sarcasm, the fact that they are for 'charity' is not an excuse to run a piss poor game. This is an angle shooters paradise having an inexperinced dealer also act as the floor. These games are a friggin disaster because poker players are some of the least charitable people in the world. Yes I know Greenstein is Mother Theresa, but think about the local rocks and angle shooters you see everyday at the Taj. If they want to do charity gambling, play bingo, or keno something you can't <censored> up too bad.

[HitHard69]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have a problem with this.. does anyone else? They obviously made an agreement early on that if they got heads-up, they would check it down. This IS NOT collusion! This is two friends that decided they were not going to rape each other if they did not have to. You can not assume collusion here especially when they are holding AA and QQ


[/ QUOTE ]
I dunno, in my book softplaying your friends is borderline collusion. I figured at best they were softplaying each other (not against the rules but arguably unethical) and at worst they were splitting profits at the end of the night.

It wasn't just this one hand, but ANY time they got heads up. But in regards to this hand, do you honestly think its a normal play to check AA on a non-paired non-threatening board after the turn, espeacially in a 1-3 spread limit game? I guess my definition of collusion is different than yours. In my mind if your play differs because your friends in the hand too, it's collusion.