Experiencing first big downswing...advice please.

In the year I've been playing 'competitive' poker I've been very fortunate to never drop more than 3 or 4 buy-ins for whatever level I'm at.

I'm currently playing NL $25 and have hit my first major downswing. I'm down over 10 buy-ins thus cutting my bankroll in half. The first 3 or so buy-ins where a product of some bad beats which I won't bore you with.

The real problem is that now after dropping a few more buy-ins I've noticed that I'm reacting to things by changing things that may prolong my swing.

For one, I started buying in short after dropping the 8th buy-in(buying in at $15 on a $25 table). This is likely bad as I'll never make up any ground should I hit some good hands and get paid off. However, I can't help but feel the need to protect what's left of my bankroll.

Two, I'm playing longer hours, hoping that between sqeaking out some wins and some decent rakeback I can get back on top of things.

Three, I'm second guessing myself. In spots where I'd make a smart move such as laying down top pair to a raise from a decent player. Instead I'm tellign myself "he doesn't have it" and try to bully with a reraise. It's like I've forgotten everything I've learned. I'm a noob all over again.

Four, I've tightened up considerably. I was (according to PT) a semi-loose aggressive/aggressive (27%/8%/3.50). It's a style I'm comfortable with and enjoy. I've noticed today that my stats have changed considerably. I'm now Tight Aggressive/Agressive (18%/6%/4.00).

So that's my situation. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you.

Tightening up a little is reasonable.

May sound a little silly, but if I'm running bad at one site, I'll try another. In my experince Absolute's low limit 6 max tables are very passive and make for a nice game. Catch a promo or rakeback deal somewhere and give Absolute or someplace else a try.

[WhoIam]

If you still have the bankroll left to do it, try to play the same as you normally would. Your downswing only exists in the past; your next session has the the same probability of being profitable as it always was. By the same token, you still need to raise AK and AQ preflop even though they haven't hit the past 15 times and you've been check-raised every time you tried a continuation bet. If you're playing scared, you're playing badly and this won't help your swing.

If you think having another big loss or two will really affect you, you can play a little more weak-tight until you start to win but then go back to your usual style. To boost yourself psychologically, try to get real excited next time you win a big pot and remind yourself that you don't always lose. It's also ok to hit and run to build up your confidence and reinforce this point, but this is the only time it's ok to do this.

Also, don't burn through your bankroll stubornly going through buyins at your usual limit. If your BR starts to suffer serious damage, move down a limit until you start winning again.

All this assumes that you have won consistently for an extended period of time. If you are fairly new to the game, your "downswing" might be the result of leaks in your game.

[PinkSteel]

1. Square your finances. If you're down 10 buyins, find a way to drop down, stop playing until you can boost your roll, or acknowledge that your risk of ruin is now significantly greater.

2. Tighten up. You've already done this. 18/6/4 is good for full ring.

3. Review big loss hands in PokerTracker; this is one of its most useful features. You're obviously OK preflop if you're 18% VP$IP. Are you overplaying your premium pairs, because you see a playable hand more seldom now?

4. Post hands, post hands, post hands. You need to have others tell you specifically where your play is off the rails. That's what the forum is for.

[ QUOTE ]
By the same token, you still need to raise AK and AQ preflop even though they haven't hit the past 15 times and you've been check-raised every time you tried a continuation bet. If you're playing scared, you're playing badly and this won't help your swing.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think i'm suffering from the opposite of this right now, I raise them, hit and then get overaggressive post flop.

I'd say the downswing started with some bad variance but I then regressed to some very bad habits, that are infact now leaks causing my continued swing. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[-Skeme-]

Move down.

[ QUOTE ]
1. Square your finances. If you're down 10 buyins, find a way to drop down, stop playing until you can boost your roll, or acknowledge that your risk of ruin is now significantly greater.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is good advice, thank you.

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2. Tighten up. You've already done this. 18/6/4 is good for full ring.


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Done and Done. Though I'm not quite as comfortable playing this tight. Seems people are better able to put me on hands. Plus I overplay the hands I get. I'm typically the one that plays just loose enough to stack the rocks at the table when they overplay their hands. Now I'm getting stacked by lags when i do the same, LOL.


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Are you overplaying your premium pairs, because you see a playable hand more seldom now?


[/ QUOTE ]

yes I am.

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4. Post hands, post hands, post hands. You need to have others tell you specifically where your play is off the rails. That's what the forum is for.

[/ QUOTE ]

I need to do more of this. I always end a session saying that I want to post hand xxxxxx and then procrastinate and never do. I go back and review them, but don't always post.

I'll have to pull out some hands today and post.

I just been through the same thing after getting used to a nice winrate for months .. suddenly I just started dropping buyins left and right ... and ended up just like you by being either to carefull and making laydown I normally wouldn't or being to aggressive and blowing large chunks of money as a consequence of this ... I couldn't make my NL hold'em work no matter what I tried

After spending some time thinking about what was wrong, I realized, that I proberly simply gone stale ... gotten a bit bored ... and just lost the edge


So I just changed tracks ... started playing stud and stud8 (Low limit stud is awful at Party by the way, to high an ante for a biginning player) and also started to play FL Hold'em

Spendt some time on reading .. read a lot of stud material .. reread SSHE by Ed Miller .. basically took an interest in something new and while I moneywise had a dry month (didn't win much playing those FL games just a tiny bit over break even) ... but it did the trick

My NL game is now fresh again and working better than ever


Or else you can try playing SNG's instead of ringgames ... I did so at first, but allthough it is a change in enviroment, and I did good playing SNG, it did nothing for my ringgame. SNG's are NL Hold'em on drugs .. play tight for a while and then push push bully push and kill kill kill ... perhaps not the best way to relax you and get your mind back in the state of serenity that is needed for ringgames

[Kyriefurro]

Last month I went through the worst downswing I've ever heard of (from a known winning player, that is). I had just moved up to NL200 and hit a bad run of cards...and then tilted. I dropped 13 buy-ins before I admitted I needed to move down. I dropped another 8 buy-ins at NL100 and then had to move down again. I dropped another 5 buy-ins at NL50 before I turned my game around.

I did all the usual things one does in a downswing. I tightened up a bit. I reviewed my hands. I posted a lot. None of it was helping.

The worst thing was, in the mornings while I was reviewing my hands the correct play seemed completely obvious, but when the hands played out I kept making the same mistakes. It seemed like I had forgotten how to play.

What helped me was a change in the way I was reviewing hands. I realized that I was on a long extended tilt and I needed to change it. So when I reviewed the hands, I didn't just focus on what I did, but also tried to remember what I was thinking and feeling as the hand played out. I learned a few things about how my emotions affect my play.

When I'm on tilt I....

...tend to think the fish are taking shots at me (and sometimes they really are)

...tend to believe my chances of making my hand are "good enough" to justify a call when really they aren't

...I bluff (including C/B's) less and call more often

...I raise with 3rd or 4th best hands, even after my oppenent has "told" me he has the nut

...I make blocking bets - and then call when they raise

These are just a few things that I learned about myself. They may or may not apply to you.

One other important thing I learned about myself is that I have a "pre-tilt" stage that I go through when I'm running bad. I'm still "in control" but I become impatient and start trying to force thing...my aggression increases and I start mis-reading the board which leads to even more losses and then shortly full blown off-the-deep-end tilt. This emotional stage is very subtle, and most of the time I don't even realize that it's happening.

You might not do any of these things when you're tilting, but it's a pretty safe bet that your emotions are contributing to your downswing. So do everything that everyone else has suggested, but also take an honest look at your emotions and thoughts and how they're affecting your play. You might be surprised at what you find...and your game will certainly improve.

I am also currently in a downswing of 7buy ins. At first it started by getting runner runner ourdraws by horrible players. Then, lately I find myself playing tight-weak then when I get a hand with a edge over my oppenent(a str8, set, two pair) who also has a strong flush draw I push at them to get them off the draw and they call and hit their draw. Flushes have been killing me and it's frustrating as hell.

What I plan on doing is taking a break until after christmas and doing some reading. Maybe when I come back I'll have a cooler head and play a little better.