Donovan Mcnabb and the NAACP

[holeplug]

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Both of them were pretty average QBs their whole career until they got a top WR, and now they've suddenly found life.

Well, okay, my point was a lot stronger before Randy Moss was hurt but Collins was insane the first couple of weeks.

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Kerry Collins has average numbers almost his whole career because he is an average QB. But McNabb's numbers are still a lot better than Collins. He has a a 2/1 TD/INT ratio while Collins has been almost exectly 1/1. He has a much better QB rating than Collins does. His completion % has even been higher. Bledsoe has a little bit better numbers than Collins but still not as good as McNabb's career numbers.

[Jack of Arcades]

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Both of them were pretty average QBs their whole career until they got a top WR, and now they've suddenly found life.

Well, okay, my point was a lot stronger before Randy Moss was hurt but Collins was insane the first couple of weeks.

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Kerry Collins has average numbers almost his whole career because he is an average QB. But McNabb's numbers are still a lot better than Collins. He has a a 2/1 TD/INT ratio while Collins has been almost exectly 1/1. He has a much better QB rating than Collins does. His completion % has even been higher. Bledsoe has a little bit better numbers than Collins but still not as good as McNabb's career numbers.

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Why are we looking at career numbers? What Kerry and Bledsoe did pre-2000 really has no bearing on today. Kerry post-2000 looks a lot better than Kerry pre-2000 (for a myriad of reasons, the biggest of which is probably no longer playing drunk).

Kerry's 2002 was pretty close to McNabb's 2004. It's important to take into account the huge jump in offense last year. Comparing 2002 to 2004 is like comparing baseball in 86 to 87.

[Pudge714]

You say McNabb only did well with TO, but if you say that you have to consider.
Peyton without Marv and Reggie
Carson without Chad
Roethlisberger without Hines
etc.

[Jack of Arcades]

Peyton is just in his own stratosphere in terms of production. Couple that with scouting, etc, and I think we can agree that Peyton isn't Peyton because of Harrison.

With Chad and Hines we can see their effects on other QBs. Maddox and Batch were horrible this year (and Maddox was horrible last year), so have a pretty decent idea that Roeth isn't just a product of the people around him. Kitna was off and on as the Bengals QB. Palmer was only above avrage last year with mostly the same people; I think Palmer represents either a true fluke or a step forward.

I dunno, am I making sense here? McNabb had pretty much set a level of performance and then TO came along and his performance spiked.

[Pudge714]

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Peyton is just in his own stratosphere in terms of production. Couple that with scouting, etc, and I think we can agree that Peyton isn't Peyton because of Harrison.

With Chad and Hines we can see their effects on other QBs. Maddox and Batch were horrible this year (and Maddox was horrible last year), so have a pretty decent idea that Roeth isn't just a product of the people around him. Kitna was off and on as the Bengals QB. Palmer was only above avrage last year with mostly the same people; I think Palmer represents either a true fluke or a step forward.

I dunno, am I making sense here? McNabb had pretty much set a level of performance and then TO came along and his performance spiked.

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I agree with what you said, however I guess I should have rephrased it how would every other QB do with James Thrash, Todd Pinkston, Torrance Small, and Fredex as there main targets, also keep in mind that before Westbrook he didn't have an above average rb. So I think he is somewhere in the middle, better than his pre TO stats, but worse than last years stats.