Is playing poker on the internet legal?

[CWGriswold]

I live in New York state. Is playing poker on the internet legal? How much trouble can I get in? What do I have to be careful about?

[tyfromm]

No.

Quit playing now and find a legal job.

[VinnyTheFish]

1) do not video tape yourself engaging in a risqué act, then let the tape be stolen in Europe.
2) Only pass Parliament-Big Ben once, twice the most!
3) Do not let your daughter date Jack … all she says is “God I miss Jack!”
4) When knocking on doors in Germany, ask for #6, not sex!
5) Avoid WallyWorld!
6) Do not let your cousin’s dog Snotz in the house.
7) Just say no to hot supermodels on the super highway.
8) This time, do not forget grandma … and the dog.
9) Why so many Christmas lights?
10) If you get lost … know exactly who to ask for directions.

[rdu $teve]

It's illegal in NY just like here in NC. We should both stop playing now, and give all our winnings back. Uh-oh, they're watching this message board too. We're going to jail for hard time. For the next 20 years, our days are gonna be spent making license plates for 17¢/hr, and our nights will be spent taking it up the poop-shoot from Bubba. Oh God!! I've gotta go hide!!!

[fnord_too]

That is an open question. IANAL, but I am pretty sure if you pay your taxes you will be fine. There was an article at cardplayer several months ago talking about the first conviction for internet betting. I found it and linked it here once, but I am lazy. You should search for it. At any rate, our current laws are ill equiped to deal with internet gambling because where transactions take place and jurisdiction gets real grey real quick, and gambling laws occur at the state level as far as I know, so they are inconsistent.

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
That is an open question. IANAL, but I am pretty sure if you pay your taxes you will be fine. There was an article at cardplayer several months ago talking about the first conviction for internet betting. I found it and linked it here once, but I am lazy. You should search for it. At any rate, our current laws are ill equiped to deal with internet gambling because where transactions take place and jurisdiction gets real grey real quick, and gambling laws occur at the state level as far as I know, so they are inconsistent.

[/ QUOTE ]

i thought that conviction was for setting up an online betting shop in the US, and not a end-user gambler like us?

or you're talking about an actual end-user?

btw- if you pay your taxes, then the IRS won't come after you for tax evadtion, but the govt can still come after you for illegal gambling if they feel like it. but i think if you move to a city that allows gambling, then you should be fine. (vegas, tunica, atlantic city, indian reservation)

[Gata Kamsky]

It's perfectly legal, they wouldn't prosecute anyway as any federal judge would easily dismiss it.

[fnord_too]

It was for placing a wager over $500 (which was illegal in his local jusrisdiction). As I recall, it carried a $500 fine and was just a misdemeaner, so the accused did not bother to contest it. Also, it was sort of an accidental thing, they thought the guy was doing something serious since a lot of money was coming into his account from off shore.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
It's perfectly legal, they wouldn't prosecute anyway as any federal judge would easily dismiss it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You cannot really say that it is perfectly legal. Certainly, it does not fall under federal gambling law since there are none (those laws are left up to the states). I don't think anyone is going to be prosecuted any time soon, but the legality has never seriously been tested in court. There have been some very unusual rulings in court regarding the internet, and to the best of my knowledge there is no comonly accepted legal threory on the internet with regards to this sort of thing. It appears to be de facto legal for now, but the whole thing is still rife with uncertainty

[XlgJoe]

Here is an article from the NY times from earlier in the year. Sorry for the length but I couldn't link to the article so I copied it out of the archives. Being from NY you might find this part of the article interesting in regards to your question.

While it is illegal to run an Internet gambling operation in the United States, state laws vary as to whether the bettor is committing a crime. New York, for instance, prohibits operation or promotion of an unlicensed casino, but it does not make the act of placing a bet a crime, said Kenneth M. Dreifach, chief of the Internet bureau for the New York attorney general, Eliot Spitzer.


By MATT RICHTEL

Published: March 15, 2004

Federal prosecutors have begun a wide-ranging effort to curb the growing popularity of online gambling in the United

States by quietly threatening legal action against American companies that do business with Internet casinos and sports

betting operations based outside the country, lawyers and industry executives say.

The investigation into the activities of media, public relations and technology companies relies on a controversial legal

concept that holds that the American businesses, by providing advertising and other services that support Internet

gambling, are "aiding and abetting" online casinos. That gives prosecutors an indirect way to attack the overseas

enterprises, whose operations are illegal here but fall outside their jurisdiction.

Lawyers said they were not aware of any charges that had been filed. Still, the campaign, which has gone on for months,

has already chalked up some significant nonlegal victories. Several big media operations — including Infinity

Broadcasting, Clear Channel Communications and the Discovery Networks — stopped running advertisements for offshore

Internet casinos last fall in light of the threat of further scrutiny that might lead to prosecution.

The investigation of the Internet gambling industry, lawyers said, is being run by Raymond W. Gruender, the United States

attorney in the Eastern District of Missouri. His office convened a grand jury last year in St. Louis that has issued

summonses to a number of companies and individuals, including Sebastian Sinclair, a market researcher who provides

economic analyses of the online gambling industry.

Mr. Sinclair said he received a subpoena at the end of February. He said it required him to testify before the federal

grand jury next month.

The investigation comes as millions of Americans have turned to their home computers to place sports bets and play casino

games. Using credit cards or other electronic payment methods, players can place wagers with the Internet casinos, most of

them in Costa Rica, the Caribbean or the Isle of Man, between Ireland and Britain.

In trying to crack down on Internet gambling through American companies that provide support services, particularly

advertising and marketing, the government may find itself on shaky legal ground, the industry, its lawyers and some

independent legal analysts say.

The reason, analysts say, is that broadcasters and marketers could well be within their First Amendment rights in

advertising on behalf of Internet casinos.

But others say prosecutors may be able to develop a sound case on the ground that American companies are profiting from

the success of Internet casinos, a plainly illegal enterprise in the United States.

Even though the legal issues have not been resolved, the inquiry is already achieving some of its goals merely by raising

questions.

"The government has floated these legal theories without having to prove anything," said Lawrence G. Walters, a Florida

lawyer who specializes in Internet gambling law. "But they've achieved their end result: scaring the players and the

industry."

Mr. Gruender, the United States attorney in St. Louis, declined to comment. His office referred inquiries to Justice

Department officials in Washington. They also would not comment, saying the department does not discuss any potential or

active investigation.

Broadcasters are already under scrutiny from regulators and legislators who are seeking to establish new standards

regarding obscenity. Recently, Clear Channel, which operates the nation's largest chain of radio stations, stopped

carrying the Howard Stern show in six cities.

The investigation also underscores the complex legal and political issues raised by the borderless Internet. The overseas

casino operations are legal and licensed in the jurisdictions where they are based, permitting them to reach through the

Web to customers in the United States, where federal and state laws forbid the operation of unlicensed casinos.

David Carruthers, chief executive of BetonSports.com, an online sports betting business based in Costa Rica, said he was

licensed in that country, as well as in Antigua, the Dominican Republic and Britain. His company alone, he said, has 1.2

million registered American users and accepted 33 million bets from North America last year, the vast majority from the

United States.

He said his advertisements had been banned recently from, among other places, the Howard Stern show, which is produced by

Infinity Broadcasting, a unit of Viacom.

Media companies are "being held hostage," Mr. Carruthers complained. "Unless they stand up, they're going to lose millions

in dollars from the advertising."

As recently as last September, Mr. Carruthers also advertised BetonSports.com on city buses in New York. But Viacom

Outdoor, which placed the ads, no longer accepts online gambling advertisements, said Jodi Senese, a spokeswoman for

Viacom Outdoor. She declined to give a reason for the decision or say precisely when the company's policy had changed.

Other media companies have also turned their backs on Internet gambling advertisements. The Travel Channel stopped running

them this fall on the World Poker Tour, one of the channel's most popular programs. David Leavy, spokesman for the

Discovery Networks, which operates the Travel, Discovery and other channels, said the policy against running ads for

Internet gambling covers all its cable channels.

"Given the investigation," Mr. Leavy said, "we are taking a cautious approach to online gaming advertisements."

Similarly, Clear Channel, which operates 1,200 radio stations and 40 television stations, stopped running advertisements

last fall after receiving a letter from prosecutors.

Some companies, however, have not changed their policies. Yahoo and Google continue to accept paid advertisements from

online gambling operations.

Yahoo, in a statement responding to questions about its Internet gambling advertisements, said it was committed to a

"high-quality and comprehensive online experience," adding that "we regularly evaluate our policies as part of our ongoing

efforts to provide the best experience for consumers and advertisers."

A spokeswoman for Google said it continued to run such advertisements and to evaluate its policies.

While it is illegal to run an Internet gambling operation in the United States, state laws vary as to whether the bettor

is committing a crime. New York, for instance, prohibits operation or promotion of an unlicensed casino, but it does not

make the act of placing a bet a crime, said Kenneth M. Dreifach, chief of the Internet bureau for the New York attorney

general, Eliot Spitzer.

The campaign by the federal government dates at least to last June, when John G. Malcolm, deputy assistant attorney

general for the criminal division of the Justice Department, sent a letter to trade groups representing publishers and

broadcasters. The letter warned the trade groups that their members might be in violation of the law by aiding and

abetting online casinos.

While declining to comment further, Casey Stavropoulos, a department spokesman said, "John Malcolm's letter speaks for

itself."

By sending an official notice, the government was giving companies "knowledge" that Internet gamblers were committing a

crime, legal experts said, one of two main elements to the crime of aiding and abetting.

But aiding and abetting has a second element — whether the broadcaster is furthering the commission of a crime, said

Jennifer S. Granick, the executive director for the Center for Internet and Society at Stanford University Law School.

Ms. Granick said case law suggested this might be hard for the government to prove; television and radio audiences are so

broad that many, if not most, of the people watching or listening to an advertisement are not going to place a bet over

the Internet. "It's not at all clear that they're breaking the law," Ms. Granick said, noting that the broadcasters could

be seen as merely disseminating information. "There's strong reason to think the opposite because they are broadcasting to

a general audience."

The investigation has recently spread beyond advertising. Mr. Sinclair, a research analyst for Christiansen Capital

Advisors of New Gloucester, Maine, said the subpoena he received two weeks ago asked him to provide information not just

about advertisers working with overseas Internet casinos, but also about public relations firms, consultants, banks, and

software and telecommunications companies.

In the earlier subpoenas to media companies, the government sought information dating to 1997 about each company's

relationship with online casinos..

Given the pressures on online casinos, Mr. Sinclair has recently downgraded his expectations for the growth of the

industry, which derives about half its revenue from Americans. In 2002, he projected $8.3 billion in sales for 2004; last

fall, he dropped that projection to $7.4 billion.