Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Tournament Poker > Multi-table Tournaments

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-27-2005, 07:29 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default JT flops pair + OESD near the bubble

Party $2 MTT 115 of 1000 left, 100 get paid.
Blinds 300/600. Villain and I both have about 10k
No strong reads on villain, but saw him limp AK UTG a few hands back, he never seems to raise preflop. Table in general quite passive.

I am dealt JTo UTG, I call. Villain (UTG+1) calls. SB completes, BB checks. The flop is Q9T. Checked to me, I bet 1200 into the 2400 pot, villain makes it 3.5k. Do I push here, is there another line I can take on the flop (people underbet a lot in these tournaments), should I have folded preflop or maybe raised to steal given we are close to the money?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-27-2005, 07:38 PM
betgo betgo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 792
Default Re: JT flops pair + OESD near the bubble

You limped UTG for 1/14th of your stack with JTo. Was the purpose to steal after the flop? I think you are better off folding, but you could steal raise UTG with the bubble. I generally don't play JTo.

I think you have to push when villain raises on the flop, and hope he doesn't have a made straight. Your hand is very strong, but connected high cards make for a lot of strong hands.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-27-2005, 07:41 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: JT flops pair + OESD near the bubble

jto utg makes my stomach bleed. How bout a hand converter next time.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-27-2005, 07:58 PM
ZBTHorton ZBTHorton is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 56
Default Re: JT flops pair + OESD near the bubble

[ QUOTE ]
CALLING jto utg makes my stomach bleed.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:13 PM
Elaboration Elaboration is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The OC, by way of the 909
Posts: 112
Default Re: JT flops pair + OESD near the bubble

FishMonger,

Fold pf. What are you looking to accomplish with a potenitally dominated hand oop?

Once to the flop, I dont like a push because I dont see what better hand folds in a $2 MTT.

Best-
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:19 PM
betgo betgo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 792
Default Re: JT flops pair + OESD near the bubble

[ QUOTE ]
FishMonger,

Fold pf. What are you looking to accomplish with a potenitally dominated hand oop?

Once to the flop, I dont like a push because I dont see what better hand folds in a $2 MTT.

Best-

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a strong draw here. You have to push. with a pair plus open ended, how do you determine what is a better hand.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:43 PM
Elaboration Elaboration is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The OC, by way of the 909
Posts: 112
Default Re: JT flops pair + OESD near the bubble

Betgo,

I dont think the draw is that strong. You can't often say hero has 13 clean outs.

If we put villian on a generous range(Q8-QJ,KT-KQ,T9,99,AT-AJ), I think Hero needs more FE than he has to make this a push.
Though I could certainly be convinced otherwise.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:52 PM
Elaboration Elaboration is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The OC, by way of the 909
Posts: 112
Default Re: JT flops pair + OESD near the bubble

Betgo,

Finally got around to this. I think a push here is spewing. Thoughts?

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 34.4735 % [ 00.30 00.05 ] { JTo }
Hand 2: 65.5265 % [ 00.61 00.05 ] { 99, AJs-ATs, KQs-KTs, QJs-Q8s, J9s, T9s, AJo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-Q8o }
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:11 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: JT flops pair + OESD near the bubble

Fold JTo preflop. You are out of position with a drawing hand. This is not a good situation, since you cannot take too much heat with JTo when there is a lot of action.

Given the situation which you describe i would agree with betgo and push. You have a pair + a draw which is a strong holding. What is villain's range?
If he had a set I suppose that he wouldn't have raised immediately. QT, Q9 are fairly loose holdings in early position, altough he has 10k and the blinds are 300/600. The only reasonable holding which beats you is AQ. If he really has AQ you still have outs, so push.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:16 AM
Lloyd Lloyd is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 412
Default Re: JT flops pair + OESD near the bubble

[ QUOTE ]
You have a strong draw here. You have to push. with a pair plus open ended, how do you determine what is a better hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not a strong draw when two pair puts 4 to the straight on the board. I'd give him credit for 10 outs and that's probably generous.

The call pre-flop is bad for exactly the reasons why you're having a tough time with this hand. Your out of position with a draw and can't figure out what to do. If you think you can steal the pot with a raise, okay. I doubt that'll work often enough at this buy-in to make it worthwhile. And if you're going to do that it really doesn't matter what you have. To me this is a clear fold 90% of the time or more.

Disclaimer: I've never played a $2 MTT so I'm not sure if this point is valid. But you make a 1/2 pot sized bet into a pretty draw heavy board after limping UTG. I'm not even sure I'd play AA/KK like that. Seems week to me and if I had chips I'd raise you with nothing.

I don't think you've got the pot odds to call. Even the implied odds aren't great as if you make your straight I think the action is dead. It's push or fold. If you push you're risking 8200 to win 13000. If you have 10 outs you're about 1.86 to 1 to improve by the river. You're not quite getting good enough odds so a fold is correct unless you think he'll fold to a push, which I don't.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.