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Old 12-20-2005, 10:48 PM
lehighguy lehighguy is offline
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Default Walking the Picket Line

There is a strong union tradition in my family, and my grandfather was a negotiator for the MTA when he was alive. Helped organize the last strike. My parents are strong supporters of the strike.

I don't know what to think. I know little about thier contract. The only thing I read is an NYT editorial that was against the strike. I know from working on GM and Delphi debt deals that excessive union concessions can bankrupt a company. Watched the companies debt go to junk, defaulted on benefits and pension, laid of all the workers anyway.
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Old 12-20-2005, 11:51 PM
BadBoyBenny BadBoyBenny is offline
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Default Re: Walking the Picket Line

[ QUOTE ]
I know from working on GM and Delphi debt deals that excessive union concessions can bankrupt a company. Watched the companies debt go to junk, defaulted on benefits and pension, laid of all the workers anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a government agency that ran a 1 billion dollar surplus last year.
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  #3  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:56 PM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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Default Re: Walking the Picket Line

I think the workers must take a stand and the stand must be on principle if the company goes bankrupt so be it. I have no idea whether the principle is justified in this case or not.

There is a difference being forced to take paycuts or concessions and being forced out because the company goes bankrupt. Like any negotiation if the unions cannot walk away they are screwed.
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Old 12-21-2005, 12:20 AM
lehighguy lehighguy is offline
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Default Re: Walking the Picket Line

They also had a rate hike and part of the money comes from taxes. So you could easily say the surplus money should go towards rate reductions rather then pay increases.

What is comes down to is whether the contract benefits are justified for the work being done. I know from my grandfathers experience it is [censored] work and you should be compensated for that, but I also recognize that being able to retire at 50 or 55 with 3/4 salary and benefits for live is way better then like 90% of the country.
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Old 12-21-2005, 03:31 AM
lehighguy lehighguy is offline
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Default Re: Walking the Picket Line

On a seperate note, I notice most press coverage gives the union/strike a bad rap.
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  #6  
Old 12-21-2005, 04:25 AM
Jdanz Jdanz is offline
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Default Re: Walking the Picket Line

whether the strike turns out to be "justified" likely will have a lot to do with how replacable the employees are (economically and politically speaking).

I feel bad for the workers, but frankly this is a pretty inefficent machine, and if they clear a large part of their workforce they could likely do away with a lot of the crap, especially the crap that builds up with sucha massive pension plan.
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  #7  
Old 12-21-2005, 06:02 AM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: Walking the Picket Line

It is funny how liberal media usually fails to fully report all the details in union strikes. It is not enough to say a corporation or the MTA made this much of a profit last year, but also to show what average wages at different levels are for union members including all their benefits. Only then is there enough informtion to make judgements on wage fairness. But of course the reason such things generally aren't reported is that all the other blue collar workers who make far less would have little sympathy for the union's position.

The key element in this matter though is that public employees are rightly held to a different standard regarding strikes which can imperil people's lives and cause severe economic hardship for all other workers. The union is breaking the law pure and simple and deserves to be harshly treated for that alone.

But they are also forcing workers to walk in freezing tempartures or not get to work and lose pay during the holiday season. Shame on them and their selfishness.
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  #8  
Old 12-21-2005, 11:21 AM
lehighguy lehighguy is offline
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Default Re: Walking the Picket Line

Should doctors be forced to treat people if they don't want too?

Should a power plant employee be forced to work because people need power?

No. You can't force people to do anything. That's slavery. If someone doesn't want to work you can choose not to pay them. That is all. I suppose the MTA should hire goons with baseball bats to go down and bash in a few heads and force people back to work, like the strikes of old. Oh wait, threatening to harm/kill people if they don't work, SLAVERY.

The unions benefits and pay have been pretty widely covered. I read about them in the NYT. Do they cover the working conditions. There is a reason they get paid more then joe blow in McDonalds. You have to go into the pit, get under some train, breath in all sorts of god awful crap that [censored] up your lungs, lie there welding some [censored] in the most awful conditions. My grandfather used to come home from work covered from head to toe in black soot. He wouldn't let anyone touch him. It was so ingrained it was impossible to get out.

The health conditions are horrible. The work is horrible. THe conditions down in the tunnels are completely unsafe. But I haven't seen any cameras going down into the pit.
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Old 12-21-2005, 12:07 PM
etgryphon etgryphon is offline
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Default Re: Walking the Picket Line

I think the whole concept of whether this is "justified" is a bit silly...

Of course they are justified. Even if they each where given a brand new car when they signed on and decided to stike, it would be "justified". It is about negotiation.

If they union is strike and driving a hard deal as to bankrupt the company, so be it. Thats life. We have unemployment so I bet some people would love a job.

-Gryph
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  #10  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:30 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: Walking the Picket Line

Despite what you say are bad working conditions, public employees should be forced to work. That is part of the deal that includes good pay and benefits and a job for life even if they are screwups.

And if their working conditions for that pay is really so bad for those poor stiffs, then give the jobs to those that would be more grateful and would work for far less money.
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