KK makes set and gets donked...

[car ramrod]

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After one donk into you on the flop, I'm not waiting for the turn because there is no guarantee he is betting again. Also, if a diamond comes you might freeze up and change your raising plan. Raising preflop and then just calling the flop and raising the turn screams monster to me and you might even get a bet/fold on the turn.


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completely agree.

*grunch*

Hmm.... Normally I'd play this the same way with two people left to call behind you. In this particular case, though, with the two diamonds on the board, I'd probably raise to protect my hand here. You'd kick yourself if SB or BB call down and beat you with a flush on the river.

Turn: Since you didn't raise the flop, MP1 comes out firing again. In cases like this, where I'm HU with someone I'm almost certainly beating and they're being aggressive, I'll play rope-a-dope with them. Let them fire on the flop and turn, and then raise the river. If you raise the turn, as you did, you may or may not get another BB out of them on the river, but if you wait until the river, they'll almost always call your raise to see the showdown, thus gaining one more BB for you.

[PseudoPserious]

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In this particular case, though, with the two diamonds on the board, I'd probably raise to protect my hand here.

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A raise won't protect your hand. There are 8 SB in the pot to start, 11 SB after the bet and the raise, and probably 12 SB unless you think MP1 will fold (unlikely). It's only 2SB to call, so that's 6:1 on a 4:1 play. You'd love a flush draw to fold because it's correct for him to call, but I don't think one will.

Raising is still good though, because you have huge equity on all bets that are going in on the flop.

PP

Wouldn't his 3-bet make it 13:3, still odds to call but just barely and if you make a rounding error.

[Songwind]

*grunch*
PF: standard

FLop: I raise here. Slowplay is for when you have a small pot (not really the case, but it isn't huge) and your opponents need a chance to improve to a hand that doesn't beat you. With a two-flush on the board, which beats our set, I want to charge any diamonds to draw.

Turn, river, I play the same.

[PseudoPserious]

Well, if you knew that MP1 would 3-bet, then it's 14:3 (unless you think hero would fold to a 3-bet after raising), which makes it a call.

If you knew that MP1 would 3-bet and hero would cap, it's 16:4 (unless you think MP1 would fold to the cap), which still makes it a call (slightly wrong but implied odds make up for it).

PP

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Grunch:

Flop is fine, though for the wrong reason. You want to call here so you can raise the turn making him pay the extra big bet vs a small bet for the flush. And if the flush hits on the turn, depending on your read of Villain, you either want to raise it here and see what he does or c/c to the river.

Turn and river are fine I think you extracted as much money as you can from this hand.

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zactly

[shant]

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Grunch:

Flop is fine, though for the wrong reason. You want to call here so you can raise the turn making him pay the extra big bet vs a small bet for the flush. And if the flush hits on the turn, depending on your read of Villain, you either want to raise it here and see what he does or c/c to the river.

Turn and river are fine I think you extracted as much money as you can from this hand.

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zactly

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Sorry I don't agree. Also, one thing I left out is just calling allows the lone A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] to continue cheaply. If Hero didn't have the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] this would be even worse.

Considering the OP's read on MP1, I assume he will at least call anything I put out there, flop, turn, whenever, so I raise the flop.

Hands like this make me wish I could see what MP1 actually had that made him think it was a good idea to play it like that. Weird.

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Grunch:

Flop is fine, though for the wrong reason. You want to call here so you can raise the turn making him pay the extra big bet vs a small bet for the flush. And if the flush hits on the turn, depending on your read of Villain, you either want to raise it here and see what he does or c/c to the river.

Turn and river are fine I think you extracted as much money as you can from this hand.

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zactly

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Sorry I don't agree. Also, one thing I left out is just calling allows the lone A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] to continue cheaply. If Hero had black Kings this would be even worse.

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Not agreeing is great. It's why we are here.

So my thoughts, the only hand the hero really fears is the flush (perhaps a straight) and if the flush comes on the turn there will be enough in the pot to continue on to the river drawing to the full house or better.

What happens if we raise on the flop? As Psuedo said the next guy get's 6:1 to draw and the odds get better for the next guy. So our opponents with a flush draw, a pair and a flush draw, or some straight draw are probably getting the right odds to draw. But they are not getting the correct odds for having only the Ace of diamonds if we just call.

If we wait til the turn to raise, then we will have a much better idea of where we stand with respect to flushes and straights. If a blank falls, we can jam it only worrying about river knowing that one of the diamonds gives us a fullhouse.

In short, I think our pot equity skyrockets if a blank falls on the turn and that's the time to get into a raising war.