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#11
11-11-2005, 03:28 PM
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Re: A weird one.
[ QUOTE ]
But seriously, [ QUOTE ] Bet the turn and call down if raised. [/ QUOTE ] The other play is check-call-donk, but I don't like it because he can easily freecard the turn when we're ahead. [/ QUOTE ] In my experience, "LAGGY, bad 48/16" type players rarely take free cards. And when they do, they're often ahead, and they do it so they can raise the river [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] Edit: I'm not saying you shouldn't bet the river if he checks behind on the turn (obviously you must), but this is the sort of thing that "tricky" limp-reraising LAG noobs will do. 
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#12
11-11-2005, 03:29 PM
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Re: A weird one.
[ QUOTE ]
But seriously, [ QUOTE ] Bet the turn and call down if raised. [/ QUOTE ] The other play is check-call-donk, but I don't like it because he can easily freecard the turn when we're ahead. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah... the only reason I would often like a check-call donk line is if I thought that villain would often not raise the river with a worse hand and/or I knew I could fold to a river raise. Namely, that means I could gaurentee getting in two bets when ahead and never spewing three when behind. This guy seems pretty irregular, though, so I don't really see those advantages. I don't want the turn getting checked through, and I'm totally fine putting in three bets on these two streets.
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#13
11-11-2005, 03:32 PM
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Re: A weird one.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] But seriously, [ QUOTE ] Bet the turn and call down if raised. [/ QUOTE ] The other play is check-call-donk, but I don't like it because he can easily freecard the turn when we're ahead. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah... the only reason I would often like a check-call donk line is if I thought that villain would often not raise the river with a worse hand and/or I knew I could fold to a river raise. Namely, that means I could gaurentee getting in two bets when ahead and never spewing three when behind. This guy seems pretty irregular, though, so I don't really see those advantages. I don't want the turn getting checked through, and I'm totally fine putting in three bets on these two streets. [/ QUOTE ] I don't really think a free card is a big concern here. What other card could come out that would help him? Seems to me when we are ahead we are dealing with a 2-4 outer.
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#14
11-11-2005, 03:36 PM
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Re: A weird one.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But seriously, [ QUOTE ] Bet the turn and call down if raised. [/ QUOTE ] The other play is check-call-donk, but I don't like it because he can easily freecard the turn when we're ahead. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah... the only reason I would often like a check-call donk line is if I thought that villain would often not raise the river with a worse hand and/or I knew I could fold to a river raise. Namely, that means I could gaurentee getting in two bets when ahead and never spewing three when behind. This guy seems pretty irregular, though, so I don't really see those advantages. I don't want the turn getting checked through, and I'm totally fine putting in three bets on these two streets. [/ QUOTE ] I don't really think a free card is a big concern here. What other card could come out that would help him? Seems to me when we are ahead we are dealing with a 2-4 outer. [/ QUOTE ] I should clarify. I'm not worried about him getting a free card to beat me. I'm worried about him seeing a showdown for less than 2 BB. My fear about a turn check-through is one of missed value, not giving a free card that beats us.
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#15
11-11-2005, 03:36 PM
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Re: A weird one.
[ QUOTE ]
Seems to me when we are ahead we are dealing with a 2-4 outer. [/ QUOTE ] If he has a J, he has 7 outs (we have one of his A outs). But I'm not worried about a free card either, because LAGs like to bet.
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#16
11-11-2005, 03:38 PM
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Re: A weird one.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Seems to me when we are ahead we are dealing with a 2-4 outer. [/ QUOTE ] If he has a J, he has 7 outs (we have one of his A outs). But I'm not worried about a free card either, because LAGs like to bet. [/ QUOTE ] One of the reasons I like a turn bet, in fact, is that I think reasonably often we're going to get raised by a "tricky" lag-type holding just something like KJ, QJ, or JT. So I just think that donking has a bit more value that check-calling on the turn.
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#17
11-11-2005, 03:47 PM
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Re: A weird one.
[ QUOTE ]
LAGGY bad player limps UTG. I haven't had much experience with seeing his showdowns but he's 48/16 average 8-handed. The flop is 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] The turn is the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Now what? [/ QUOTE ] I think you are behind more often than ahead at this point. LAGs love to LRR things like QT/KQ/QJ. Again, you haven't seen his showdowns much, but I think it is unlikely that you'll run into AA/KK/AJ, as he would most likely raise the first two, and likely any ace (given his stats). Despite all this, the pot is large and it is time to find out what sort of stuff he shows down, so I think a check/call, check/call is in order. Or spike a J. -Ash
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#18
11-11-2005, 03:49 PM
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Re: A weird one.
i don't really like the bet out on the flop with four bets preflop. i think a check call would be better.
i would bet out with the king and call a raise. check call the river UI.
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#19
11-11-2005, 03:52 PM
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Re: A weird one.
[ QUOTE ]
i don't really like the bet out on the flop with four bets preflop. i think a check call would be better. i would bet out with the king and call a raise. check call the river UI. [/ QUOTE ] We capped pre-flop and that flop actually gave us a fair amount of equity. How do we not bet out on this flop? In other words, if we're going to cap pre-flop with AK out of position we need to be willing to be out with it, or else give away cheap cards, make very obvious what our hand is, etc, etc.
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#20
11-11-2005, 04:03 PM
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Re: A weird one.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Seems to me when we are ahead we are dealing with a 2-4 outer. [/ QUOTE ] If he has a J, he has 7 outs (we have one of his A outs). But I'm not worried about a free card either, because LAGs like to bet. [/ QUOTE ] One of the reasons I like a turn bet, in fact, is that I think reasonably often we're going to get raised by a "tricky" lag-type holding just something like KJ, QJ, or JT. So I just think that donking has a bit more value that check-calling on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] I don't like playing the hand with the mindset of giving too much weight to being ahead. Because I think we are probably behind a lot of the time (dare I say the majority). If I know (ie am reasonably sure) this guy will bet the turn in most circumstances, I like checking. It give us the best of both worlds. A bet goes in when we are ahead, and the times we are behind we maintain decent odds for our 4-9 out draw.
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