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  #1  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:08 AM
JustPlayingSmart JustPlayingSmart is offline
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Default Huge River Overbet from a total rock

2/5 NL at Windstar in Oklahoma. Terrible game. I have $600 in front of me. Villain has approximately $2500, and since I've only been here 30 minutes I have no idea how he got it. Every pot is raised and heads up, so I'm playing like a rock and hating it. I bluff check/raised with an underpair to get above the $500 starting stack, but villain wasn't there for that.

He raises to $20 in EMP and I call with 9s7s. Everyone else folds.

Flop is 8s 5c 4c. He checks and I check.

Turn is As. He checks and I bet $40. He calls.

River is 8d. He bets $80, and I move in for almost $500 more.

Flame me.

P.S. In case anyone didn't realize, I'm the rock.
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  #2  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:14 AM
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Default Re: Huge River Overbet from a total rock

Why did you bother playing 97 in the first place?
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  #3  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:20 AM
ahnuld ahnuld is offline
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Default Re: Huge River Overbet from a total rock

Meh, doesnt seem believeble becuase you bet the 8 on the flop. If villan is a thinking player, he calls this with any decent ace.
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  #4  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:21 AM
Reef Reef is offline
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Default Re: Huge River Overbet from a total rock

fold preflop
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  #5  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:25 AM
ahnuld ahnuld is offline
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Default Re: Huge River Overbet from a total rock

[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

nit
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  #6  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:30 AM
JustPlayingSmart JustPlayingSmart is offline
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Default Re: Huge River Overbet from a total rock

[ QUOTE ]
Meh, doesnt seem believeble becuase you bet the 8 on the flop. If villan is a thinking player, he calls this with any decent ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you mean because I didn't bet the flop?

Do you think he shows up here with anything bigger than an ace?

If he somehow had a big pair, am I getting a fold?
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  #7  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:51 AM
ansky451 ansky451 is offline
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Default Re: Huge River Overbet from a total rock

A key part about making big overbets, is the meta-game aspect of it. Overbets do best when they are either against total donks who you know can't fold top pair, so you can overbet the nuts against them- or against thinking players where you can mix in a bluff or the absolute nuts. Overall I don't really think he folds AK here enough for this to work. I mean, you're repping a full house for sure, but you also look like you are bluffing. Usually when people have large stacks, they call of more. In my experience playing live cash games, people don't like calling for their stacks as much as people who just have to find a few green chips.

Also, this isn't that huge an overbet. It's like 460 into 280 or something like that. Yeah its an overbet, but its not HUGE.
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  #8  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:51 AM
ansky451 ansky451 is offline
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Default Re: Huge River Overbet from a total rock

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

nit

[/ QUOTE ]

pf call is standard but I haven't played a 10 man cash game in a real long time.
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  #9  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:12 AM
edge edge is offline
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Default Re: Huge River Overbet from a total rock

Reraise preflop or bet the flop and you take the pot. If you have a rock image, at least use it to your advantage.
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  #10  
Old 12-28-2005, 01:54 PM
JustPlayingSmart JustPlayingSmart is offline
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Default Re: Huge River Overbet from a total rock

In the hand I actually had AK, and not 9s7s.

I instacalled the $80 on the river and tabled my hand immediately since it was pretty obvious it was good.

But on the drive home I got to thinking: if he can beat AK basically never here, why do I not raise. I know the arguments against it, he won't call with a worse hand or fold a better one. But what if I can force him to make some kind of heroic call with an ace? The responses in this thread make it seem like a lot of you would interpret this as a bluff, so maybe some of you would man up and call with AQ/AJ (which seem like pretty reasonable holdings for villain).

I pretty much would never raise here without a huge hand, and I think that's something that I need to fix since it would also give my bluffs a little more credibility. At least in this case since I have a pretty firm grasp on his range of hands.

Villain said he had KK and cursed himself for not betting the flop. But I think he had to be lying since the $80 river bet is pretty much atrocious with KK (as would have been his play pretty much every street after the flop).
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